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Can someone explain Bitcoin to me?
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- Lemon Quarter
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Re: Can someone explain Bitcoin to me?
Found this in-depth feature in The Guardian and thought it may be of interest:
https://www.theguardian.com/technology/ ... yptosphere
Enjoy!
Watis
https://www.theguardian.com/technology/ ... yptosphere
Enjoy!
Watis
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- Lemon Quarter
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Re: Can someone explain Bitcoin to me?
I presume you don't offer settlement of your invoices in EUR or USD. Why the interest in Bitcoin? Have (m)any of your clients requested it?Mike4 wrote:...
Chris
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- Lemon Half
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Re: Can someone explain Bitcoin to me?
csearle wrote:I presume you don't offer settlement of your invoices in EUR or USD. Why the interest in Bitcoin? Have (m)any of your clients requested it?Mike4 wrote:...
Chris
I was trying to buy a lithium battery management PCB for sale on ebay but the sale would not complete. Or rather it appeared to complete then the ebay software reversed the transaction after about 30 seconds. Had this before and the seller needs to whinge at ebay about it. So I PMed the seller telling him and he just responded by offering to sell it to me off-ebay by transferring some tiny fraction of a bitcoin to his wallet. This coincided with this thread and made me wonder about the viability of bitcoin as a currency and whether I should figure out how to accept it.
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- Lemon Quarter
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Re: Can someone explain Bitcoin to me?
Right. Interesting that the seller requested Bitcoin. Think that you and I are of an age where we will probably survive on good old plain vanilla pounds. C.Mike4 wrote:...
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- Lemon Half
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Re: Can someone explain Bitcoin to me?
csearle wrote:Right. Interesting that the seller requested Bitcoin. Think that you and I are of an age where we will probably survive on good old plain vanilla pounds. C.Mike4 wrote:...
Indeed, it was the first time I've encountered a potentially genuine BC transaction naturally, in the wild. I declined but not because of the BC generically, but because I would have lost the ebay 'buyer protection'. E.g. what if I paid the price and nothing arrived... shafted!
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- 2 Lemon pips
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Re: Can someone explain Bitcoin to me?
Blockchains vulnerable to tampering:
https://tech.slashdot.org/story/22/06/2 ... ysis-finds
You used to be able to get the Bitcoin paper here: https://bitcoin.org/bitcoin.pdf
It's no longer there. I wonder why.
That paper was not clear to me how it works, how it would verify that the piece of work being calculated was awarded to the right person if there was a race condition etc.
And Satoshi is a pseudonym - a person that might not exist - it could be a group, a government, a bunch of cyber criminals, who knows.
At most, I'd consider it a form of currency, like (iliquid and vulnerable) cash. Not investments, such as stocks.
https://tech.slashdot.org/story/22/06/2 ... ysis-finds
You used to be able to get the Bitcoin paper here: https://bitcoin.org/bitcoin.pdf
It's no longer there. I wonder why.
That paper was not clear to me how it works, how it would verify that the piece of work being calculated was awarded to the right person if there was a race condition etc.
And Satoshi is a pseudonym - a person that might not exist - it could be a group, a government, a bunch of cyber criminals, who knows.
At most, I'd consider it a form of currency, like (iliquid and vulnerable) cash. Not investments, such as stocks.
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- Lemon Slice
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Re: Can someone explain Bitcoin to me?
stacker512 wrote:That paper was not clear to me how it works, how it would verify that the piece of work being calculated was awarded to the right person if there was a race condition etc.
If two people solve a block at the same time, they would both broadcast their blocks to the network, each awarding themselves the reward.
Each other participant would choose which block (A or B) to start building from. For a time there would be two divergent blockchains(A+ and B+), each looking to build the next block on on of the two solutions. Once someone finds the next block (say someone building on A+), they broadcast that out to the network (as A++). At that point it is in the economic interest to all participants to accept A++ as the single chain to build from in the future. The orphaned chain gets abandoned, and the consensus is that the team that solved block A earned the rewards after all, and the team that solved block B didn't.
TL;DR: For a short period of time, there are two parallel blockchains, but the situation will automatically resolve itself.
Edit: To answer the possible next question, in most cases the same transactions would be being processed in both blocks, so it doesn't actually affect Bitcoin transactions which chain wins, except those transactions dependent on the block rewards from B, which never actually happened. The possibility of orphaned blocks and parallel chains (whether occurring naturally or deliberately) is why it was always recommended that you didn't consider a transaction completed until it was several blocks 'down' in the blockchain (so X more blocks had been mined after the one containing the transaction). Commonly 6 blocks was considered safe.
Edit 2: Link to original Bitcoin paper: https://www.ussc.gov/sites/default/file ... Crypto.pdf
You can thank Craig Steven Wright for the paper not being viewable on bitcoin.org from the UK: https://github.com/bitcoin-dot-org/Bitc ... -Cobra.pdf
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- Lemon Slice
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Re: Can someone explain Bitcoin to me?
At most, I'd consider it a form of currency,
And a currency which is not so useful as a medium of exchange because its value gyrates so markedly.
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- Lemon Slice
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Re: Can someone explain Bitcoin to me?
stacker512 wrote:And Satoshi is a pseudonym - a person that might not exist - it could be a group, a government, a bunch of cyber criminals, who knows.
If you mean Bitcoin's workings are secret, than I'll have to correct that misapprehension. Whether the original code was created by one person or not (does it matter?), it's source code is maintained by about 900 people under an MIT licence here:
https://github.com/bitcoin
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- Lemon Quarter
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Re: Can someone explain Bitcoin to me?
I have a lot of respect for Bruce Schneier. The core of his post is cryptocurrencies are a solution looking for a problem
https://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/ ... chain.html
https://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/ ... chain.html
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Re: Can someone explain Bitcoin to me?
https://www.coincorner.com/
Proving popular in Isle of Man and Gibraltar for BTC payments. Small steps....
Proving popular in Isle of Man and Gibraltar for BTC payments. Small steps....
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- Lemon Quarter
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Re: Can someone explain Bitcoin to me?
mjbdreamer wrote:https://www.coincorner.com/
Proving popular in Isle of Man and Gibraltar for BTC payments. Small steps....
For what it's worth, I've opened an account with coinbase and am very happy with them.
https://www.coinbase.com/
I know others who use Revelut.
They supply a Visa debit card, and I used some of my bitcoin to buy shirts at a high street shop in England via contactless debit card.
One point that I do feel I should emphasize, though. It's a DEBIT card. Hence, you need to leave crypo/bitcoin with the custodian to use it.
Not ideal if you want sovereignty of your money.
The advantage of my Visa card?
There is no problem dealing with people who want fiat.
I'd love to pay in BTC directly or via lightning, but understand that some want to restrict how and what they are paid.
I'm visiting a nightclub next month that refuses cash and only takes card payments (Visa, MasterCard, Amex).
I'd love to pay in cash, but they won't accept pound notes.
I'm starting to think that I have too much in £'s and not enough in ₿
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- Lemon Quarter
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Re: Can someone explain Bitcoin to me?
Urbandreamer wrote:mjbdreamer wrote:https://www.coincorner.com/
Proving popular in Isle of Man and Gibraltar for BTC payments. Small steps....
For what it's worth, I've opened an account with coinbase and am very happy with them.
https://www.coinbase.com/
I know others who use Revelut.
They supply a Visa debit card, and I used some of my bitcoin to buy shirts at a high street shop in England via contactless debit card.
One point that I do feel I should emphasize, though. It's a DEBIT card. Hence, you need to leave crypo/bitcoin with the custodian to use it.
Not ideal if you want sovereignty of your money.
The advantage of my Visa card?
There is no problem dealing with people who want fiat.
I'd love to pay in BTC directly or via lightning, but understand that some want to restrict how and what they are paid.
I'm visiting a nightclub next month that refuses cash and only takes card payments (Visa, MasterCard, Amex).
I'd love to pay in cash, but they won't accept pound notes.
I'm starting to think that I have too much in £'s and not enough in ₿
Coinbase and Coincorner sound so similar I wondered if they were the same company, but apparently not.
Any glaring differences between the two?
Steve
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- Lemon Quarter
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Re: Can someone explain Bitcoin to me?
stevensfo wrote:Any glaring differences between the two?
Steve
Well the Visa debit card as against the Bolt card that requires finding a vendor that accepts lightning. If you are on the Isle of Mann then you may have more ability to use bitcoin than I have where I live.
There are many exchanges out there. Most will be very similar, with some minor differences that they regard as USP's.
I've not used Coincorner so can't comment about them. With respect to Coinbase, they have a great, powerful phone app. However it's security is only as good as the security on your mobile phone, so you need to make sure that's tight.
As for similar names, we also have Coinjar.
They also offer a MasterCard Debit card.
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- The full Lemon
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Re: Can someone explain Bitcoin to me?
Urbandreamer wrote:I'm visiting a nightclub next month that refuses cash and only takes card payments (Visa, MasterCard, Amex).
I'd love to pay in cash, but they won't accept pound notes.
I should think not! (Have you tried farthings?)
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- Lemon Quarter
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Re: Can someone explain Bitcoin to me?
Well the Visa debit card as against the Bolt card that requires finding a vendor that accepts lightning. If you are on the Isle of Mann then you may have more ability to use bitcoin than I have where I live.
Well I was ok until 'Visa Debit Card'.
When did buying tokens get so complicated?
Well I was ok until 'Visa Debit Card'.
When did buying tokens get so complicated?
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- Lemon Quarter
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Re: Can someone explain Bitcoin to me?
Tedx wrote:Well the Visa debit card as against the Bolt card that requires finding a vendor that accepts lightning. If you are on the Isle of Mann then you may have more ability to use bitcoin than I have where I live.
Well I was ok until 'Visa Debit Card'.
When did buying tokens get so complicated?
When it's not about buying "tokens" but spending "money".
Visa is a "money transfer agency". People with a Visa debit card buy stuff in a shop using a debit card, and their account has the value debited from it.
This is true if you are a French citizen buying stuff in London (the shop gets £'s and your banc has € debited).
It was also true when I bought my shirts, save that my account had ₿ debited.
viewtopic.php?p=579566#p579566
There is another method commonly used when buying stuff. Though not at that nightclub I mentioned. You get out a wallet and hand over notes and coins that you carry upon you. You "self-custody" your "money".
Of course our French gent must now carry £'s rather then € if he wants to buy stuff with cash in London, because many of the shops likely won't accept the €'s anymore than they would accept ₿.
The bitcoin way is to get out a crypto wallet and transfer bitcoin to pay the vendor.
The bolt card acts as a "bearer" crypto wallet. That is to say, just like a "love to shop" gift card, you can give someone a bolt card with "money" on it, which they can spend at any shop that is part of the network. Just like a "love to shop" gift card, there are places you can spend the balance and places which won't accept it.
I hope that this explanation helps.
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- The full Lemon
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Re: Can someone explain Bitcoin to me?
...But what is the advantage over any ordinary debt or credit card?
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- Lemon Quarter
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Re: Can someone explain Bitcoin to me?
Urbandreamer wrote:Tedx wrote:Well the Visa debit card as against the Bolt card that requires finding a vendor that accepts lightning. If you are on the Isle of Mann then you may have more ability to use bitcoin than I have where I live.
Well I was ok until 'Visa Debit Card'.
When did buying tokens get so complicated?
When it's not about buying "tokens" but spending "money".
Visa is a "money transfer agency". People with a Visa debit card buy stuff in a shop using a debit card, and their account has the value debited from it.
This is true if you are a French citizen buying stuff in London (the shop gets £'s and your banc has € debited).
It was also true when I bought my shirts, save that my account had ₿ debited.
viewtopic.php?p=579566#p579566
There is another method commonly used when buying stuff. Though not at that nightclub I mentioned. You get out a wallet and hand over notes and coins that you carry upon you. You "self-custody" your "money".
Of course our French gent must now carry £'s rather then € if he wants to buy stuff with cash in London, because many of the shops likely won't accept the €'s anymore than they would accept ₿.
The bitcoin way is to get out a crypto wallet and transfer bitcoin to pay the vendor.
The bolt card acts as a "bearer" crypto wallet. That is to say, just like a "love to shop" gift card, you can give someone a bolt card with "money" on it, which they can spend at any shop that is part of the network. Just like a "love to shop" gift card, there are places you can spend the balance and places which won't accept it.
I hope that this explanation helps.
With cards like Revolut, it's a doddle. You change currencies on the app, at a rate that is far better than in any bank. You can open a 'wallet' for loads of currencies. Then you simply use your Revolut debit card in any country and it takes the money from the appropriate wallet.
My wife visits her mum in Poland a lot and she's amazed at how much she's saved with the card. Before, she was using her other cards or buying Polish currency and paying a fortune!
Revolut not only pings your app when it gets used, but also allows you to switch off the contactless function. Both very good security features that should be obligatory for all card-app combinations!
Steve
PS I totally agree about cash! I do my bit for keeping cash going, not just for those who can't cope with technology, but more importantly for privacy and staying in control. I gave up loyalty cards years ago for similar reasons - and to have more room in my wallet. If the shops and authorities want the data covering my spending habits, times & dates, purchases, amount paid etc, then they can bloody well contact me and make me an offer!
PPS Although it's a brilliant card, it's not ideal for withdrawing cash!
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- Lemon Quarter
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Re: Can someone explain Bitcoin to me?
XFool wrote:...But what is the advantage over any ordinary debt or credit card?
Of what? Using cash?
I think Steve covered that.
The Bolt card? I thought that I covered that in explaining that it can be a tangible physical gift. The person receiving it doesn't even need a bank account.
Of course you could just give someone your credit or debit card.
A bit odd to do so when they could use something like this to pay for their Bovril at half time.
https://lasereyes.cards/buy-now/real-be ... ters-club/
Possibly, like me, you're not a fan of football.
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