Smart meter

[Nemo]

Not too sure if this is the right board but I’ve had an email saying that my electric meter has come to the end of its “certification period” and needs renewing with a smart meter. After see a now withdrawn video by Onzo I do not want a smart meter.

What would be the best way to deal with this? I’m tempted just to ignore it. If I have to have another meter can I insist on a non-smart one?
Thanks

The Onzo video:

'Smart' meters: Admission of IN-HOME SURVEILLANCE FOR PROFIT

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YIkT5GmoIgQ

[kiloran]

Eon kept bugging me to get smart meters, which I refused. They then sent me a letter about 2 years ago informing me that my electricity meter was end of life, so I should contact them to get a smart meter fitted. I ignored this, and they have never mentioned it since. I got a phone call from them a few months back to try and persuade me to get smart meters, but they could not provide a single good reason for it over a 20 minute call, other than it will save me 2 minutes a month to send online readings. They've been quiet since.

--kiloran

[JohnB]

I'd stall, until at least they send you a paper letter, then write a paper letter back with you concerns. That's what we are doing, as EDF are bound to cock-up the replacement of our meter. Have they mentioned that its connected with the Radio Teleswitch service shutoff, https://www.ofgem.gov.uk/replacing-your ... city-meter

[Mike4]

Not too sure if this is the right board but I’ve had an email saying that my electric meter has come to the end of its “certification period” and needs renewing with a smart meter. After see a now withdrawn video by Onzo I do not want a smart meter.

What would be the best way to deal with this? I’m tempted just to ignore it. If I have to have another meter can I insist on a non-smart one?
Thanks

The Onzo video:

'Smart' meters: Admission of IN-HOME SURVEILLANCE FOR PROFIT

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YIkT5GmoIgQ

I've seen this concern addressed by my own supplier, in a totally unsatisfactory way!

They say they only fit smart meters as replacement meters now, and I have to have one. But I can request it to NOT be set up to be "smart", and to behave like a dumb meter.

Yeah right. With my tin hat on, how could I possibly know they didn't turn on the smarts anyway and are busy building up a detailed record of when I'm at home and when I'm not???!!

And all that other snoopy stuff, obviously!

[scrumpyjack]

They did that certification thing to me. I just changed suppliers - no problem - end of smart meter nagging messages for a while.

ps I had one fitted eventually because I wanted an EV tariff - all fine

[Mike4]

Oh and another point. I keep hearing about people on Economy 7 getting booted off that tariff when the Smart Meter is fitted. They then get put on something else, often supremely unsuitable for storage heating (whether water heating or space heating).

Often without them realising until the big bills start arriving, and they they get told there is no equivalent tariff to E7 on a smart meter. I dunno how true all this really is but it's worth enquiring about in detail before consenting to losing a dumb E7 meter.

[mc2fool]

Oh and another point. I keep hearing about people on Economy 7 getting booted off that tariff when the Smart Meter is fitted. They then get put on something else, often supremely unsuitable for storage heating (whether water heating or space heating).

Often without them realising until the big bills start arriving, and they they get told there is no equivalent tariff to E7 on a smart meter. I dunno how true all this really is but it's worth enquiring about in detail before consenting to losing a dumb E7 meter.

So you've said before on these boards (viewtopic.php?p=608228#p608228), but it's (still) not true. At least, it wasn't for me. I was on E7 with a 5 port dumb meter and got it changed to a 5 port smart meter ('cos of the then looming now postponed RTS switch off) and I am still on E7. That's with EDF.

[scrumpyjack]

I should point out that the Economy 7 tariffs (which I was on until I got the SM) are generally a lot more expensive than similar time based tariffs available if you have a smart meter. My current EON tariff is 9.5p from midnight to 7am and 33.91p the rest of the time.

[mc2fool]

I should point out that the Economy 7 tariffs (which I was on until I got the SM) are generally a lot more expensive than similar time based tariffs available if you have a smart meter. My current EON tariff is 9.5p from midnight to 7am and 33.91p the rest of the time.

Is that an EV tariff?

[scrumpyjack]

I should point out that the Economy 7 tariffs (which I was on until I got the SM) are generally a lot more expensive than similar time based tariffs available if you have a smart meter. My current EON tariff is 9.5p from midnight to 7am and 33.91p the rest of the time.

Is that an EV tariff?

Yes, though I'm not sure how they check you actually have an EV!

[DrFfybes]

The Onzo video:

'Smart' meters: Admission of IN-HOME SURVEILLANCE FOR PROFIT

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YIkT5GmoIgQ

<sigh>

It is complete bollox, which is why it was withdrawn. They were advertising a service they could not provide. All they know is when you use power, and that is limited to the 30 min intervals monitored by the meter, not real time. The IHD has real time data, but the meter takes 30 min readings.

So they can guess that if you use a high load appliance every morning at 8am you are having a shower, or boiling the kettle, or running the washing machine, or hairdrier, but they have absolutely no way of knowing what you are doing. They have no way of knowing whether I put the dishwasher on delayed last night, or got up at 3am for a cuppa.

Yes, they could use data to infer you were on holiday, but there are much easier ways for people to work that out.

Oh and another point. I keep hearing about people on Economy 7 getting booted off that tariff when the Smart Meter is fitted. They then get put on something else, often supremely unsuitable for storage heating (whether water heating or space heating).

Often without them realising until the big bills start arriving, and they they get told there is no equivalent tariff to E7 on a smart meter. I dunno how true all this really is but it's worth enquiring about in detail before consenting to losing a dumb E7 meter.

I'd be interested if you could find the name of one, because if so you could refer them to Ofgem... https://www.ofgem.gov.uk/economy-7-tariff-guidance The tariff is governed by the supplier, not the meter. We actually struggled to get OFF E7 when we moved in here (no idea why the previous owners were on it), and we had a smart meter.

All the people in here worried about their privacy are presumably using TOR as a browser and incognito browsing and fastidiously deleting their cookies every time they leave the site?

I should point out that the Economy 7 tariffs (which I was on until I got the SM) are generally a lot more expensive than similar time based tariffs available if you have a smart meter. My current EON tariff is 9.5p from midnight to 7am and 33.91p the rest of the time.

Shhhh, don't go telling people there are benefits of a SM. They'll all want one

Paul

[mc2fool]

Is that an EV tariff?

Yes, though I'm not sure how they check you actually have an EV!

Yeah, the EV tariffs are quite a bit cheaper, but presumably that's 'cos of the large amount of energy you suck up, a discount for quantity.

But yes, how do they check? After all, even if you have an EV you may still be a light duty user.....

[scrumpyjack]

Yes, though I'm not sure how they check you actually have an EV!

Yeah, the EV tariffs are quite a bit cheaper, but presumably that's 'cos of the large amount of energy you suck up, a discount for quantity.

But yes, how do they check? After all, even if you have an EV you may still be a light duty user.....

There is no required quantity to use and I use very little as I'm retired and low mileage. I use virtually no daytime leccy as I have batteries and solar panels, and indeed export a lot for which they pay me 16.5p a unit. The small amount of mains leccy I use is virtually all at the 9.5p rate.

[JohnB]

We have a 9 hour off-peak "White Meter" tariff charged at E7 rates. I bet EDF try to change that to E7, in spite of claims that "nothing will change", and I will have to launch into my third battle royale with them over the issue (the magic tariff is why we won't leave EDF even though we hate them).

[Nemo]

The Onzo video:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YIkT5GmoIgQ

<sigh>

It is complete bollox, which is why it was withdrawn. They were advertising a service they could not provide. All they know is when you use power, and that is limited to the 30 min intervals monitored by the meter, not real time. The IHD has real time data, but the meter takes 30 min readings.

So they can guess that if you use a high load appliance every morning at 8am you are having a shower, or boiling the kettle, or running the washing machine, or hairdrier, but they have absolutely no way of knowing what you are doing. They have no way of knowing whether I put the dishwasher on delayed last night, or got up at 3am for a cuppa.

Yes, they could use data to infer you were on holiday, but there are much easier ways for people to work that out.

Oh and another point. I keep hearing about people on Economy 7 getting booted off that tariff when the Smart Meter is fitted. They then get put on something else, often supremely unsuitable for storage heating (whether water heating or space heating).

Often without them realising until the big bills start arriving, and they they get told there is no equivalent tariff to E7 on a smart meter. I dunno how true all this really is but it's worth enquiring about in detail before consenting to losing a dumb E7 meter.

There is some evidence that the claims by Onzo are true.

In the USA power companies were remotely altering air conditioning settings:

How your power company can remotely control your smart thermostat

https://www.vox.com/recode/22543678/sma ... s-heatwave

An interesting article from The Telegraph about the unreliability of these meters:

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/money/consu ... o-get-one/

I get the impression that they are not being installed for my benefit so I'm not having one.

If I'm forced to have one then presumably it wouldn't be difficult to interfere with the signal?

[didds]

If I'm forced to have one then presumably it wouldn't be difficult to interfere with the signal?

this is something I've wondered too.

our meter is situated inside a larder, inside the kitchen, inside the house. To access it you have to move at least one large jar of rice/beans/lentils etc once larder access is gained.

There must be some sort of "aerial" that one could just wrap in cling film/stick a coke can over the top of.

There's probably some T&C requirement to leave it available to "the world" - but given the above it wouldn't be above the wit of man to spot the meter man arriving and whip off the faraday cage on it (though that would immediately of course send its signal to the world )

If of course you are "at home"

That said we haven't had a meter man visit here in well over a decade and I doubt more than twice in 25 years of living here.

[the0ni0nking]

A similar thread was posted on MSE a number of years ago:

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/di ... ife-tactic

Some of the answers there at least sound somewhat "practical".

[Nemo]

This seems an accurate explanation of the legal position:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KXQgwAM11DQ&t=9s

I'll play dumb and ignore things until the letters start arriving - could be a while from what I can see, and from what I have been told

[csearle]

Unlike an old meter, with a smart meter, you can be summarily cut off, either deliberately or by accident. Like my neighbour. C.

[Nemo]

I think that I could insist on having a dumb meter and then just to be sure stick one of these on it:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Shield-Faraday ... B0B82BDLWQ