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Greek Cities Given Deadline to Pay Back Debt
Posted: November 15th, 2016, 10:38 am
by Generali
http://www.ekathimerini.com/213661/arti ... y-off-debtThe Municipality of Maroussi, northern Athens, will pay off its debts of 56 million euros in 1,991 months, or about 166 years. The City of Piraeus has debts of 10 million that it will pay back in 152 months, or about 13 years. And the Municipality of Fyli, northwestern Attica, will pay back 469 million euros in 24,546 months, or some 2,129 years.
Is there really a qualitative difference between never paying off a debt and paying it off in 2,129 years? I can't think of a single sovereign entity that has survived without invasion or revolution for that period or anything remotely like it. Even if I had a demonstrable claim against King Æthelstan or whatever it's hard to imagine I'd have much ability to enforce it through the courts.
Re: Greek Cities Given Deadline to Pay Back Debt
Posted: November 17th, 2016, 7:57 am
by TahiPanas
Generali wrote:http://www.ekathimerini.com/213661/article/ekathimerini/business/municipalities-given-till-year-4144-to-pay-off-debt
The Municipality of Maroussi, northern Athens, will pay off its debts of 56 million euros in 1,991 months, or about 166 years. The City of Piraeus has debts of 10 million that it will pay back in 152 months, or about 13 years. And the Municipality of Fyli, northwestern Attica, will pay back 469 million euros in 24,546 months, or some 2,129 years.
Is there really a qualitative difference between never paying off a debt and paying it off in 2,129 years? I can't think of a single sovereign entity that has survived without invasion or revolution for that period or anything remotely like it. Even if I had a demonstrable claim against King Æthelstan or whatever it's hard to imagine I'd have much ability to enforce it through the courts.
There seems to be a general understanding that the EU approach to Greek debt is: extend and pretend. Greece itself seems to be adept at this. The examples above are patently ridiculous.
Re: Greek Cities Given Deadline to Pay Back Debt
Posted: November 17th, 2016, 8:32 am
by Generali
I don't really understand why the Greeks haven't simply defaulted, TBH I think it would save everyone a lot of time and money in the end.
Something, something, German conspiracy, something I guess.
Re: Greek Cities Given Deadline to Pay Back Debt
Posted: November 17th, 2016, 4:01 pm
by gryffron
Generali wrote:I don't really understand why the Greeks haven't simply defaulted, TBH I think it would save everyone a lot of time and money in the end.
It isn't simple. It used to be simple in the past, they've done it before. But this time their debt is euro-debt, not Greek-debt. A shared currency is great, cos it gets you cheap debt. But a debt in somebody else's currency is forever. As the Greeks are finding to their considerable pain. They cannot default without leaving the euro. Which, in the medium-long term would probably be the best solution for the Greeks. But not one either they, or the euro-politburo, want to see happen.
gryff
Re: Greek Cities Given Deadline to Pay Back Debt
Posted: November 17th, 2016, 9:15 pm
by dspp
gryffron wrote:Generali wrote:I don't really understand why the Greeks haven't simply defaulted, TBH I think it would save everyone a lot of time and money in the end.
It isn't simple. It used to be simple in the past, they've done it before. But this time their debt is euro-debt, not Greek-debt. A shared currency is great, cos it gets you cheap debt. But a debt in somebody else's currency is forever. As the Greeks are finding to their considerable pain. They cannot default without leaving the euro. Which, in the medium-long term would probably be the best solution for the Greeks. But not one either they, or the euro-politburo, want to see happen.
gryff
Which is the good thing about the Euro, and about the EU. Because, after all,
why would you ever lend to someone who could pull the plug on you with no consequences ?
regards, dspp
Re: Greek Cities Given Deadline to Pay Back Debt
Posted: November 18th, 2016, 9:17 pm
by Nimrod103
dspp wrote:Which is the good thing about the Euro, and about the EU. Because, after all, why would you ever lend to someone who could pull the plug on you with no consequences ?
Good, but perhaps not in the way you meant. The Greeks owe so much because they thought that by being members of the Euro, they could spend on the German credit card. With the drachma, they would never have been able to run up such large debts.
So why did the Germans lend the Greeks so much? Did they not realize they would never get the money back, or is it all some part of a grand strategem?