Plumbing

[1nvest]

In brief, can cold weather bring on a galvanised loft tank ballcock failing to stop inflow of water alongside a overflow pipe being blocked by having become frozen, resulting in the tank over-filling and over-flowing?

TLDR;

A property left empty/cold over the really cold period and foolishly hadn't had the water system drained. A couple/few weeks back opened the front door and walked into a puddle that had spread around the hall, bedroom, kitchen, bathroom etc (bungalow single storey) with water dribbling down through the ceiling directly below where the old galvanised style water tank is in the loft. Immediately turned the water supply off and drained the system by running taps, flushing the loo and spent the day mopping/towelling up as much of the water as possible out of the soaked carpeting. Since then I've been drying out as much as possible and slowly getting there.

However a couple of days ago I turned the water back on and filled the loft tank after having pushed all of the thick loft insulation aside and removed pipe lagging etc to expose as much as possible in the loft to see where the leak was, suspecting a burst pipe... but nothing. Dry and 'normal'. Sink/bath taps all running, toilet flushing etc. all OK, and not a sign of any water leak at all. Called in a checkatrade plumber yesterday who basically seemed to be just after quick/easy jobs - said he couldn't help after a brief look. Yet others called out have simply just not turned up, phoned towards the end of the day to 'reschedule' to another day. De-humidifier/fan rentals seem like gold-dust, not been able to hire any as of yet, I guess due to many cold spell burst piping around the area. So mostly drying through a combination of air flow (doors/windows open whilst I'm there) and heating (electric, as the gas central heating has stopped working as well).

My suspicions are that the tank may simply have over-flowed, perhaps the cold weather somehow froze the ballcock down permitting continual filling and where the overflow pipe may also have been frozen (or be blocked), resulting in the tank continually filling until water overflowed out over the top of the tank. Any idea of whether that could have been a possibility as in the absence of anything else I'm at a loss. The insurance is insisting that a plumbers report for cause and repair of the leak be sent to them before they'll progress the claim.

When I did remove the insulation filled black bin liner type that was wrapped around the galvanised tank the other day the external walls of the tank were damp, but I put that down to being condensation, but now suspect it could be a indicator of when the tank had overflowed weeks back. All of the plasterboards visible between joists in the loft look dry.

[88V8]

In brief, can cold weather bring on a galvanised loft tank ballcock failing to stop inflow of water alongside a overflow pipe being blocked by having become frozen, resulting in the tank over-filling and over-flowing?

Yes.
Bit of a bummer.

How long was it left? If the ball valve is just letting a small amount in, the slow egress of water through the overflow will freeze more readily than a steady outflow. I would rewasher or replace the ball valve. Perhaps get a plumber to do that simple job and write you a 'report'.

Your insurers of course want to know the cause to avoid a recurrence.

It's worth going a bit overboard with insulating a loft tank... jacket, polystyrene slab, lag all the pipes including the overflow with foam, and the fiddly bits and corners with felt pipe wrap.

We never drain our system when we're away in winter, but I do turn off the main stopcock to limit the possible flood and everything is well lagged and we leave the storage rads on and there is no insulation beneath the tank.
Of course, insulation cannot totally prevent freezing, all it can do is slow it down, so a modicum of heat in the room beneath is rather important.

You may be able to buy a dehumidifier on eBay, local to the house or to where you live or the journey in between, then resell it if you wish.

V8

[1nvest]

In brief, can cold weather bring on a galvanised loft tank ballcock failing to stop inflow of water alongside a overflow pipe being blocked by having become frozen, resulting in the tank over-filling and over-flowing?

Yes.
Bit of a bummer.

Thanks

How long was it left? If the ball valve is just letting a small amount in, the slow egress of water through the overflow will freeze more readily than a steady outflow. I would rewasher or replace the ball valve. Perhaps get a plumber to do that simple job and write you a 'report'.

A couple/few weeks. I think if the ballcock is at a particular angle then it still lets water trickle in. The top of the galvanised tank is also showing age and signs of rusting/crumbling on the inside upper walls/corners. I've got another plumber scheduled in for Tuesday so thinking of getting the entire tank replaced with a new PVC/plastic one and hopefully give me a 'report'.

You may be able to buy a dehumidifier on eBay, local to the house or to where you live or the journey in between, then resell it if you wish.

I did look at buying a new dehumidifier a week or so back and couldn't find any available (out of stock). Not really a urgent matter as the place is empty for the winter and fixing/redecoration now. I think buying is better otherwise its renting multiple units/fans that over several weeks would total to more than buying one. Slower to dry out with just one unit moved from room to room, but I then get to keep it. eBay is a good suggestion as I suspect after the cold snap and high demand for de-humidifiers many might come onto the market locally after a few weeks (February).

Thanks again.

[DrFfybes]

How long was it left? If the ball valve is just letting a small amount in, the slow egress of water through the overflow will freeze more readily than a steady outflow. I would rewasher or replace the ball valve. Perhaps get a plumber to do that simple job and write you a 'report'.

A couple/few weeks. I think if the ballcock is at a particular angle then it still lets water trickle in.

Presumably your insurers knew it was left empty or you have visited at regular intervals so it was not empty longer than stipulated in the insurance policy. We nearly got caught out by that after mum moved into a flat and the sale on the house was delayed, leaving it empty into winter.

Paul

[88V8]

did look at buying a new dehumidifier a week or so back and couldn't find any available (out of stock).

We have two - Ebac 2650 - bought separately, second-hand, on eBay.
Need not be new...

The report... you need to get the claim settled... not an optional extra that the plumber provides one...

V8

[1nvest]

How long was it left? If the ball valve is just letting a small amount in, the slow egress of water through the overflow will freeze more readily than a steady outflow. I would rewasher or replace the ball valve. Perhaps get a plumber to do that simple job and write you a 'report'.

A couple/few weeks. I think if the ballcock is at a particular angle then it still lets water trickle in.

Presumably your insurers knew it was left empty or you have visited at regular intervals so it was not empty longer than stipulated in the insurance policy. We nearly got caught out by that after mum moved into a flat and the sale on the house was delayed, leaving it empty into winter.

Paul

Thanks Paul. No we're within the allowances, policy states 30 consecutive days. Whereas it was just unoccupied for days at a time, a week or so during the really cold snap a couple of weeks prior to xmas, occupied again before days pre/post xmas (with family elsewhere), occupied agai before a little over a week at and into the new year. Otherwise visited/occupied in between times.

Now have a report to pass to the insurer indicating the cause as being a old-tank, ballcock and restricted overflow pipe having resulted in the tank overfilling/flowing. So provided that progresses as expected the insurance associated outfit will arrange for the drying and restoration.

[Dod101]

How long was it left? If the ball valve is just letting a small amount in, the slow egress of water through the overflow will freeze more readily than a steady outflow. I would rewasher or replace the ball valve. Perhaps get a plumber to do that simple job and write you a 'report'.

A couple/few weeks. I think if the ballcock is at a particular angle then it still lets water trickle in.

Presumably your insurers knew it was left empty or you have visited at regular intervals so it was not empty longer than stipulated in the insurance policy. We nearly got caught out by that after mum moved into a flat and the sale on the house was delayed, leaving it empty into winter.

Paul

Thanks Paul. No we're within the allowances, policy states 30 consecutive days. Whereas it was just unoccupied for days at a time, a week or so during the really cold snap a couple of weeks prior to xmas, occupied again before days pre/post xmas (with family elsewhere), occupied agai before a little over a week at and into the new year. Otherwise visited/occupied in between times.

Now have a report to pass to the insurer indicating the cause as being a old-tank, ballcock and restricted overflow pipe having resulted in the tank overfilling/flowing. So provided that progresses as expected the insurance associated outfit will arrange for the drying and restoration.

So why should having an old tank, ballcock and restricted overflow pipe result in an insurance claim? Sounds, if that is the cause, much more like a lack of maintenance to me.

Dod

[88V8]

So why should having an old tank, ballcock and restricted overflow pipe result in an insurance claim? Sounds, if that is the cause, much more like a lack of maintenance to me.

Yeah, but who 'maintains' their cold water tank?
Or even their much more accessible loo cistern?

I bet if you started a poll ....When did you last inspect the ball valve and overflow of your cold water tank? ... you'd have plenty of replies... Never.

These things just work.. until they don't.

V8

[Dod101]

So why should having an old tank, ballcock and restricted overflow pipe result in an insurance claim? Sounds, if that is the cause, much more like a lack of maintenance to me.

Yeah, but who 'maintains' their cold water tank?
Or even their much more accessible loo cistern?

I bet if you started a poll ....When did you last inspect the ball valve and overflow of your cold water tank? ... you'd have plenty of replies... Never.

These things just work.. until they don't.

V8

Yes but my point is that nothing lasts for ever. Lack of maintenance, old age or whatever does not automatically make it an insurance claim. I had my radiator valves changed recently and the radiators are now working much better than they have for some time. I am paying the invoice in fact have paid the invoice and will not be submitting a claim to my insurers. It is an ‘old age’ or maintenance issue not an insurance matter.

Dod

[DrFfybes]

I bet if you started a poll ....When did you last inspect the ball valve and overflow of your cold water tank? ... you'd have plenty of replies... Never.
V8

I bet you'd get one vote for "In the last 3 weeks"

[1nvest]

So why should having an old tank, ballcock and restricted overflow pipe result in an insurance claim? Sounds, if that is the cause, much more like a lack of maintenance to me.

Top layer sheet of ice forming within the water tank that permitted the continual in-flow of water, water flowing out of the overflow pipe froze/blocked. Maybe a newer/maintained ballcock might have better cut off the inflow despite the formation of ice ??? The metallic pin/swivel connection/rods do have play, however I suspect they wear/last longer than modern day plastic versions?

How often do you pay a plumber to climb right up inside the loft to near the apex to inspect your tank/ballcock/overflow? Yearly? Less frequent?

[Dod101]

So why should having an old tank, ballcock and restricted overflow pipe result in an insurance claim? Sounds, if that is the cause, much more like a lack of maintenance to me.

Top layer sheet of ice forming within the water tank that permitted the continual in-flow of water, water flowing out of the overflow pipe froze/blocked. Maybe a newer/maintained ballcock might have better cut off the inflow despite the formation of ice ??? The metallic pin/swivel connection/rods do have play, however I suspect they wear/last longer than modern day plastic versions?

How often do you pay a plumber to climb right up inside the loft to near the apex to inspect your tank/ballcock/overflow? Yearly? Less frequent?

Never is the answer. Anyway, I may have read the original post wrongly. Obviously the insurers are likely to pay for for damage caused by the overflowing water. There is unlikely to be any issue about lack of maintenance.

Dod