Bad Neighbours

[PingPong]

I live next to a housing association house. Mine is private.
For months I have suffered from loud sustained arguments, banging and crashing and the smell of cannabis coming across my property.
I have complained many times to the Police and the housing association who have issued the odd warning and nothing else.
Obviously by making complaints my ability to move house is much diminished. According to a local estate agent I would get very few views and I would lose around 10% of my property value.

Before I contact my solicitor are you aware of any action I might take against the housing association for my losses and my now failing health.

Thanks

Ping Pong

[Clitheroekid]

I live next to a housing association house. Mine is private.
For months I have suffered from loud sustained arguments, banging and crashing and the smell of cannabis coming across my property.
I have complained many times to the Police and the housing association who have issued the odd warning and nothing else.
Obviously by making complaints my ability to move house is much diminished. According to a local estate agent I would get very few views and I would lose around 10% of my property value.

Before I contact my solicitor are you aware of any action I might take against the housing association for my losses and my now failing health.

Unfortunately the outlook isn't good. Legally your neighbours are causing `nuisance' and you could take legal action against them to obtain an injunction - a court order telling them to stop. You could also claim damages from them, but as they're scrotes you'd never get paid.

However, it's relatively expensive to obtain an injunction, and the chances are they would probably ignore it, requiring further expense to try and enforce the injunction.

Many attempts have been made by people in your situation to claim against the landlord of tenants from Hell. Unfortunately, they've failed, on the basis that a landlord is not usually liable for acts of nuisance by his tenants unless he has, for example, encouraged or approved of the nuisance behaviour. Merely taking no action to stop them isn't, unfortunately, enough to establish liability.

The leading case is Hussain v Lancaster City Council. There's a brief sunmary here - http://swarb.co.uk/hussain-v-lancaster- ... l-ca-1999/

[midnightcatprowl]

I can't answer on the legal aspect but have you approached your local Councillor about the issues? Councillors come in good, bad and indifferent forms of course but many are very good at helping out with local issues, some of them because that is why they became a councillor i.e. they wanted to help with local issues, and some of them merely because they hope you'll vote for them next time, but both can come to pretty much the same thing in the end from your point of view. In the area where I live I know that over the years a number of issues have been sorted out by the local Councillors after other methods failed.

The other point I would make is have you managed to make recordings of the noise from any of these arguments or general 'noise' events and if not can you do so? Evidence is always useful. If you just say you find something awful, unacceptable, disturbing, frightening or whatever, the issue is that different people have very different tolerance levels and react to noise in very different ways, so 'evidence' of something outside of the normal can be very useful.

On the issue of the smell of cannabis I don't think you have a hope or indeed any real cause for complaint unless there is evidence that they are dealing or farming it rather than just making personal use of the stuff. All of us who live anywhere near to our neighbours - I live in a terraced row of small houses of the type which used to be called 'starter' homes though they don't have that function any longer - are inevitably subjected to aromas from neighbours cooking, neighbours having barbecues and in particular the original lighting of barbecues which seems to involve petroleum based inflammable fuels, neighbours hanging out washing which they appear to have steeped in the strongest of possible fabric conditioners which clash dreadfully with the aromas from trees and flowers in our gardens, neighbours coming out into their garden to have a cigarette and so on. My point is simply that if you complain about what you personally do not like as opposed to what most people would regard as a problem e.g. violent arguments and excessive and worrying noise, may reduce the extent to which your complaints about the real issues are taken seriously.

[Weath]

Many attempts have been made by people in your situation to claim against the landlord of tenants from Hell. Unfortunately, they've failed, on the basis that a landlord is not usually liable for acts of nuisance by his tenants unless he has, for example, encouraged or approved of the nuisance behaviour. Merely taking no action to stop them isn't, unfortunately, enough to establish liability.

The leading case is Hussain v Lancaster City Council. There's a brief sunmary here - http://swarb.co.uk/hussain-v-lancaster- ... l-ca-1999/

The introduction of the Anti-social Behaviour, Crime and Policing Act 2014 has changed the landscape in terms of the responsibility held by landlords - both social and private. Whilst no stated cases currently exist, I have been on many courses held by David Armstrong (a Barrister in Anti-social Behaviour and Environmental Law, if not the leading Barrister in respect of ASB) who fully advocates taking direct enforcement action by means of a Community Protection Notice (CPN) against landlords as well as tenants in certain circumstances.

To the OP: As with all these things, Environmental Health is your first port of call to establish the existence of a (legal) nuisance to establish if the degree of disturbance is at significant levels to be formally tackled.

Weath

[Weath]

On the issue of the smell of cannabis I don't think you have a hope or indeed any real cause for complaint unless there is evidence that they are dealing or farming it rather than just making personal use of the stuff.

Possession, whether at home or not, is still a criminal offence . Police should be (and depending on your local force - "Will") take action. One local force is very active in reports of home drug use for intelligence purposes. The other local force doesn't give a damn. Guess which one I work with professionally?

All of us who live anywhere near to our neighbours [SNIP] inevitably subjected to aromas from neighbours cooking, neighbours having barbecues and in particular the original lighting of barbecues which seems to involve petroleum based inflammable fuels, neighbours hanging out washing which they appear to have steeped in the strongest of possible fabric conditioners which clash dreadfully with the aromas from trees and flowers in our gardens, neighbours coming out into their garden to have a cigarette and so on. My point is simply that if you complain about what you personally do not like as opposed to what most people would regard as a problem e.g. violent arguments and excessive and worrying noise, may reduce the extent to which your complaints about the real issues are taken seriously.

Well yes, but until recently 'odours' from domestic properties were exempt from formal action i.e. only odours from industrial premises are covered as statutory nuisances under s79 of the Environmental Protection Act 1990. However, as I have just mentioned in my proceeding post, the Anti-social Behaviour, Crime and Policing Act 2014 has really changed what can be (and also expected to be!) tackled in terms of ASB by relevant authorities. Domestic odour complaints are one such complaint type that are now expected to be investigated,

Weath

[PingPong]

My thanks for all your replies.

I have since spoken to the housing association and they are hoping to remove the son from the premises permanently with an injunction. I have also contacted environmental health.

Now for a laugh.

Last night after a visit to the garden centre I attempted to spend the evening in the garden but the neighbours son and friends were smoking cannabis and the smell really turns my stomach. I phoned the Police and got this response......

"We cannot enter a premises even if we think a crime is being carried out. If we knock on the door and they don't answer we have to walk away"

So you can break any law you like on your own premises and the Police can't nab you for it. Unfortunately I can't think of a single law I'd like to break. Any advice?

[Clitheroekid]

The introduction of the Anti-social Behaviour, Crime and Policing Act 2014 has changed the landscape in terms of the responsibility held by landlords - both social and private. Whilst no stated cases currently exist, I have been on many courses held by David Armstrong (a Barrister in Anti-social Behaviour and Environmental Law, if not the leading Barrister in respect of ASB) who fully advocates taking direct enforcement action by means of a Community Protection Notice (CPN) against landlords as well as tenants in certain circumstances.

This is excellent advice, and the legislation could indeed be helpful in your situation.

The only problem is that the legislation doesn't allow you to take any action yourself. It only provides for action to be taken by public bodies, and the major difficulty here is actually getting them to do anything.

Particularly in present times local authorities are - or at least think they are - under-resourced, and action that only assists one private individual as against the community as a whole may not have a high priority.

However, as has been suggested it would be a good idea to contact your local councillor as they can lean on the appropriate people at the Council to take action.

[Weath]

The only problem is that the legislation doesn't allow you to take any action yourself. It only provides for action to be taken by public bodies, and the major difficulty here is actually getting them to do anything

My primary point was more a heads-up that action can potentially be taken against landlords now when required. Whilst (IME) Housing Associations have very little knowledge and practical experience of the new legislation they are also one of the delegated professional groups who are able to utilise the use of the new Community Protection powers - although CK's comments generally stacks up in the real world in that you'll need to work with your local authority to go this route. Generally apathy and buck-passing is how most HA's work ...

The only problem is that the legislation doesn't allow you to take any action yourself. It only provides for action to be taken by public bodies

Section 82 of the EPA 1990 allows for an individual to take their own summary proceedings for statutory nuisance. Always worth considering should you feel you are getting nowhere with other routes.

Weath

[PingPong]

Thanks Weath,

The housing association officer has been and gone and I have been treated to lots of laughter from next door. I think they have a low opinion of the officer visiting.

I shall wait to see what the environmental health people say when they get in contact with me.

Ultimately I need to sell up and move on so I have to decide to put up with it for 5 years. The victim is punished.

Ping Pong

[PingPong]

Environmental Health have been in touch and told me there is nothing they can do.

What is the point of these bodies who take taxpayers money and then shake their heads when you ask them to do a days work?

Ping Pomg

[Weath]

Environmental Health have been in touch and told me there is nothing they can do.

What is the point of these bodies who take taxpayers money and then shake their heads when you ask them to do a days work?

Ping Pomg

Well, whilst on paper they potentially can, it ultimately very much depends on the specific circumstances of your individual case.

It is very easy to generically discuss and advise someone online about the scope of the legislation that is out there that could be used to address your concerns - however, all this can go out of the window depending upon the demonstrable evidence that the professionals who are working first hand with you are able to establish.

Unfortunately, "loud sustained arguments, banging and crashing" are common noises that arise from many households and they will be at their most noticeable where people live in close proximity to one another or especially across shared party walls or where there is a 'clash of lifestyles' i.e. a young active family living near to an elderly retired couple

EH have to establish the level and extent of the impact (regularity, time of day, length of incidents etc.) and whether this evidence can potentially be defended in a Court environment as being outside of typical domestic noise in the event of an appeal against formal action being taken. It is important to note that inaudibility is not a requirement of the legislation and why a lot of general "banging / crashing" type complaints will never really progress anywhere unless there are deeper issues involved.

With respect, it sounds as if EH in your case (in possession of all the details) have assessed the circumstances as being more of an irritation to you rather than something that is happening at significant levels to be actionable under their powers. As an individual you obviously have the right to disagree with their opinion but having worked in EH for a very long time I have never known fellow colleagues shy away from enforcement action where it is necessary and /or appropriate, as it is generally in the DNA of the individuals who tend to go down the "noise" route of the profession (think parking wardens! ).

As I mentioned in an earlier post; cannabis possession is still illegal and any ire in respect of this aspect aimed at EH is a little unfair if the police are also unwilling to get their hands dirty.

ATB

Weath.
(Env Health Officer)

[PingPong]

Weath,

thankyou for your input.

The most distressing thing for me is 3 people having loud aggressive arguments on a daily basis that is intruding on my life and is very upsetting.
I know that effing and jeffing at the top of your voice is hardly seen as being unreasonable these days but I went out all day sunday and it wasn't until I got home that I realised just how nice the world is if you are away from it!
Today they reverted to type and I had the pleasure of 3 people shouting obscenities at each other for 1/2 an hour at the tops of their voices.

I'm living next door to the Jeremy Kyle show 24/7

Ping Pong

[ReformedCharacter]

Weath,

thankyou for your input.

The most distressing thing for me is 3 people having loud aggressive arguments on a daily basis that is intruding on my life and is very upsetting.
I know that effing and jeffing at the top of your voice is hardly seen as being unreasonable these days but I went out all day sunday and it wasn't until I got home that I realised just how nice the world is if you are away from it!
Today they reverted to type and I had the pleasure of 3 people shouting obscenities at each other for 1/2 an hour at the tops of their voices.

I'm living next door to the Jeremy Kyle show 24/7

Ping Pong

How about recording it and then pointing speakers at your neighbours, play it back with as much volume as you feel like.

RC

[Clitheroekid]

One possibility, albeit fairly remote, that may be worth investigating is whether or not the neighbouring house is subject to any restrictive covenants.

I mention this because I successfully used this route on behalf of some clients several years ago. Their situation was similar to yours, in that their next door neighbours were low life scrotes who spent their time having screaming arguments and playing loud music. My clients had tried everything. The local authority had been helpful and had served a Noise Abatement Notice as had the Police, who had intervened on several occasions and issued some form of ASBO.

But all to no avail.

The houses were very large Victorian houses, and it occurred to me that such houses were very often subject to covenants. Sure enough, a quick check showed that the house was subject to a covenant not to cause nuisance to neighbouring occupiers. Another key question was whether we could enforce it or not, and it turned out that we could.

As anticipated, threats to enforce the covenants were completely ignored. We therefore issued proceedings claiming an injunction and damages.

We managed to obtain an interim injunction within a few days. This was due to last until the full trial took place, probably a year later.

Initially this was also ignored, but this resulted in two of the neighbours being arrested for contempt of court. They received a substantial fine and a strong warning that further breaches would result in imprisonment.

This had the desired effect, in that after three or four months a resolution was arrived at. By way of a compromise my clients bought the neighbours’ house at a very substantial discount to reflect the legal costs and damages that they would otherwise have been awarded. Once they'd moved out my clients were able to sell it on at a considerable profit.

Obviously, your situation is different, in that the occupiers don’t own the house, and as I said in my earlier post a landlord is not generally liable for the acts of his tenants. However, the difference here is that if a covenant does exist it gives you a direct legal relationship with the landlord Housing Association.

Your claim would therefore be brought against the HA as owners of the house, as it’s they who are breaking the covenant in allowing the land to be used so as to create a nuisance.

As I said at the outset this depends on such covenants existing, but they are quite common, even in modern houses. It would therefore be worth your obtaining a copy of your neighbour’s title to see if any such covenants exist.

You can obtain a copy of the HA’s title from the Land Registry - https://www.gov.uk/search-property-info ... d-registry