Funeral wishes in a Will: binding or not....

[yorkshirelad1]

I was under the impression (IANAL) that most matters in a Will were binding on the exors (unless e.g. a DoV is made), apart from funeral arrangements, and exors could ignore any funeral wishes in a Will (notwithstanding the point in the article below comparing professional exors and lay exors)

I sometimes read Gary Rycroft's column in the Saturday Telegraph and usually find it informative. Last Sat (7 Jan 2023) was

‘How can I stop my children interfering with my funeral plans?’
A reader's children disliked his second wife and now he fears they won't honour his wishes after his death
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/money/consumer-affairs/how-can-stop-children-interfering-funeral-plans/ (paywall)

The bit that interested me was:

If for some reason, you do not wish to appoint a professional executor, since the Human Rights Act 1998 came into force, there is a legal argument that not to carry out a person’s funeral wishes would be a breach of Article 8 (respect for family life) or Article 9 (freedom of conscience, thought or religion).  However, it strikes me that the practical reality is that there would not be anyone to assert such right on your behalf after your death; and do you really want a legal wrangle to ensue before your funeral?

[Lootman]

My first thought is about timing. A funeral usually happens very quickly after death, aside for any issue with the coroner or the police. Whereas probate may not start for weeks and can drag out for months or years.

Moreover it is usually the next of kin that organises the funeral, who may or may not be the executor. Indeed if a solicitor is named as the executor then they may not even be consulted before the funeral takes place.

So if I were bothered about what happens to my remains (I am not) then I would feel the need to do more than just insert a clause in my Will, which may not even have been read by the time of my funeral.

[Eboli]

Lootman observes:

So if I were bothered about what happens to my remains (I am not) then I would feel the need to do more than just insert a clause in my Will, which may not even have been read by the time of my funeral.

I do not know the real answer here though I am interested in the answer.

I have made three Wills in my life that and each was drafted after consultation with a solicitor. Each included a direction about what is to happen to my remains and in each the verb used is "desire" in the relevant clause, i.e., I DESIRE that my remains are..... I remember questioning this and being told that indicating my wishes was the most that I could do. Of course Lootman is right about the practical aspects and that you are probably better placed if you seeks such assurances as required from your next of kin.

Trouble is in my case that is not a solution. So I have agreed what I want with a funeral director and have paid for the whole up front. I am reliant, of course, on him getting possession.

Eb.

[Clitheroekid]

I always advise against putting funeral directions in a Will, for reasons set out in a post I made 5 years ago - viewtopic.php?p=103796#p103796

[88V8]

I was under the impression (IANAL) that most matters in a Will were binding on the exors (unless e.g. a DoV is made), apart from funeral arrangements, and exors could ignore any funeral wishes in a Will (notwithstanding the point in the article below comparing professional exors and lay exors)..

My mother sent us all an Expression of Wishes some years before she died, which included funeral arrangements.

Now here's an idea... why not have a dry run while you're still here.
Invite everyone who would come, try the coffin for size, horse-drawn hearse with peacock feathers, bearers in top hats, enjoy the eulogies, join in the wake.... then when the real thing comes around it can all be done on the cheap and you won't need to haul out lawyers to enforce your wishes because you won't know about it anyway.

V8

[Eboli]

Clitheroekid says:

I always advise against putting funeral directions in a Will, for reasons set out in a post I made 5 years ago

WTGR I'm not sure the reason given is a good one, i.e., you might not be aware of any desires until after the event. In all 5 funerals I have arranged the funeral director has always checked with me that I have checked whether the Will indicates any wishes regarding the funeral. Solicitors seem to be willing to indicate whether anything is mentioned and if it is what is mentioned (though maybe I've been lucky and, as a matter of law, they should not be doing this). But for the reasons already being discussed any desires expressed are somewhat irrelevant anyway.

Eb.

[Lootman]

Clitheroekid says:

I always advise against putting funeral directions in a Will, for reasons set out in a post I made 5 years ago

WTGR I'm not sure the reason given is a good one, i.e., you might not be aware of any desires until after the event. In all 5 funerals I have arranged the funeral director has always checked with me that I have checked whether the Will indicates any wishes regarding the funeral.

Funeral directors will do that but they take your reply at face value. They do not ask to see the Will, nor conduct any checks to confirm that the planned ceremony violates any clause in the Will.

In practice if you go to an undertaker with a death certificate and a reasonable account of why/how you have authority to organise a funeral, then they will take your business. You certainly do not have to be an Executor or PR - I have organised 3 funerals and I was only the Executor for one of those estates.

And I know that for some people funerals happen very quickly e.g. Jewish and Muslim funerals. And most families and next of kin can't really proceed with the arrangements for the "closing down" of a life until after the funeral is over.

PS: I have no idea what WTGR means

[88V8]

PS: I have no idea what WTGR means

It might be With The Greatest Respect.. or something to do with railways.

V8

[Lootman]

PS: I have no idea what WTGR means

It might be With The Greatest Respect.. or something to do with railways.

Or, googling it, "What the Gordon Ramsey".

[Peanutte]

Slightly off-topic....

I remember reading that Diana, Princess of Wales had made some gifts in a Letter of Wishes (or similar) for her God Children.

For some reason which I cannot recall, her family disagreed with these and the gifts were not made.

Did seem to me to be a bit mean - it's not as if they were short of money, and it was obviously what she had wanted.

I suppose the moral of this is to put it in the actual Will, or give the gifts while you are alive.

Pea.

[Eboli]

Just to tidy up a few threads:

1. By WTGR I meant 'With the greatest respect' though now I have seen the Gordon Ramsey reference (many thanks for that, Lootman) I will have to reconsider the use of it in future.

2. I think the issue with Princess Diana was a Deed of Varation was made and the gifts concerned were made within a Letter of Wishes referring to the original Will.

3. It may be good advice as suggested by Peanutte to give the gifts while you are alive, but that it hardly apt when the subject is your remains!

Eb.