The Lemon Fool

My car got hit by a lorry whilst parked.
A witness saw what happened, left a note on my windscreen, and reported it to the police.
I called the police and got the "crime reference" number.
They wont give me the witnesses details (data protection), but the police will provide it to an insurer.

The car is getting repaired (fully comp), but I have no courtesy car or legal cover.
My details were passed to Enterprise Car Rental, but unless the third party insurer admits liability, they won't do credit hire (god knows how they make any money).
I'm in a position where I will need (rather than want) a car next weekend, and there is no certainty that my car will be fixed by then, so it looks like I will have to hire a car out of my own pocket.

How will I go about claiming uninsured losses (own excess, possible hire car) once I have quantified what it has cost me? (E&W)
I expect my losses to be well within the small claims limit.

My assumption is that I write a letter before action, and if they ignore that, instruct a solicitor?

Suggestions?

PochiS

imo you tell your insurers!
its their job to recover your losses....and of course their own costs incurred

Many home insurance policies include legal assistance. If you have it, perhaps see if it is something they can help you with, or at least advise you about?

I know it's tedious, and you may have done already
but read the terms of your insurance policy
Good luck, I feel for you, you must be gutted

mutantpoodle wrote:imo you tell your insurers!
its their job to recover your losses....and of course their own costs incurred

Only the losses you are insured for I would think. So if you incur costs for hiring a car, but that wasn't part of your cover, why would your insurance company assist in recovering such?

Fully comp doesn't mean the same as some think. Often only found out when rarely attempting a claim, rather than the more frequent choosing of the policy (when most will focus on the factor of cheapest cost, rather than (potential) benefits).

I suspect you will need to ultimately instruct, and pay for, a solicitor - if the costs of your hire make such an approach worth it.

dealtn wrote:I suspect you will need to ultimately instruct, and pay for, a solicitor - if the costs of your hire make such an approach worth it.

The OP is expecting to be within the small claims limits so a solicitor would probably not be appropriate as normally legal costs would not be recoverable.

pochisoldi wrote:M
I expect my losses to be well within the small claims limit.

My assumption is that I write a letter before action, and if they ignore that, instruct a solicitor?

Suggestions?

PochiS

FAO...Dealyn

qq
Only the losses you are insured for I would think. So if you incur costs for hiring a car, but that wasn't part of your cover, why would your insurance company assist in recovering such?
uq

correct of course, but I was looking to establish the guilt of the other party at a more official level that OPs witnesses etc

and the insurance company would have more resources available to recover 'its' part of the loss

once that was estabalished a balance of OPs expenses should be more easilly chased

pochisoldi wrote:My car got hit by a lorry whilst parked.
A witness saw what happened, left a note on my windscreen, and reported it to the police.
I called the police and got the "crime reference" number.
They wont give me the witnesses details (data protection), but the police will provide it to an insurer.

The car is getting repaired (fully comp), but I have no courtesy car or legal cover.
My details were passed to Enterprise Car Rental, but unless the third party insurer admits liability, they won't do credit hire (god knows how they make any money).
I'm in a position where I will need (rather than want) a car next weekend, and there is no certainty that my car will be fixed by then, so it looks like I will have to hire a car out of my own pocket.

How will I go about claiming uninsured losses (own excess, possible hire car) once I have quantified what it has cost me? (E&W)
I expect my losses to be well within the small claims limit.

My assumption is that I write a letter before action, and if they ignore that, instruct a solicitor?

Suggestions?

PochiS

I am puzzled about why a witness would report the matter to the Police. Why would they do that? You need to get a letter to the owner/driver of the lorry that caused the damage asap and tell them that you hold them responsible for the damage, that you have a witness and ask them to pass the matter to their insurers. Advise your insurers about the witness and that you do not expect this to affect your NCB and ask them about the recovery of your uninsured losses.

After that you can decide about instructing a solicitor, but that to me would be a last resort as you are then racking up more costs and with an uncertain outcome.

Dod

PS Who is Enterprise Car Rental?

One of the problems with the race for the lowest premium is things get cut. Direct Line offer things in their ads that seem obviousm but some companies don't cover.

Replacement car hire is often one that is an extra, but some of the larger players (Churchill IIRC) don't/didn't offer EU cover as standard on their policy.

Paul

Dod101 wrote:
PS Who is Enterprise Car Rental?

Have never heard of them but google throws this up
https://www.enterprise.co.uk/en/busines ... ement.html
look like a business arrangement

How about instead of renting, buying a car - then selling it again afterwards.

you shoudbe able to recoup most if not all of the purchase price. There will be hassle with insurance and VED of course (whether a 0 year NCP insurance or a transferred current policy etc . ) and of course depends on whether you have ready funds to do that.

its merely a suggestion

Good luck.

didds

didds wrote:How about instead of renting, buying a car - then selling it again afterwards.
didds

I have always bought cars (OK am fortunate to be in a position to do so)
but it means you are not wasting money on interest/finance charges, whether that be obvious or hidden
I also plan to keep them and not swap every 2-3 years

pje16 wrote:

Dod101 wrote:PS Who is Enterprise Car Rental?

Have never heard of them but google throws this up
https://www.enterprise.co.uk/en/busines ... ement.html
look like a business arrangement

I have rented from Enterprise a few times. They have a different business model, mostly avoiding city centre and airport sites, and instead operating out of suburban locations and business parks. Their big feature is that they will pick you up and take you to their rental location, and after you return the vehicle they will drive you home or wherever you want to go (within reason).

So they are quite useful if your car has to go into the garage for a while.

pje16 wrote:

didds wrote:How about instead of renting, buying a car - then selling it again afterwards.
didds

I have always bought cars (OK am fortunate to be in a position to do so)
but it means you are not wasting money on interest/finance charges, whether that be obvious or hidden
I also plan to keep them and not swap every 2-3 years

I meant a temporary ownership, not a replacement.

A 2K 14 year old car or similar to use until such time as your actual car is back with you.

My limited experience (chum, and my son) of insurance provided hire cars is that it ends up being a rental with you guaranteeing various things and being stiffed at the end by "scratches" that allegedly have appeared during your period of insurance provision (that the insurance doesn't cover of course). Im not convinced insurance provided hire vehicles are worth the hassle anyway. And a couple of weeks of hire vehicle is probably much the same as a temporary car purchase - with most of it coming back (if not all) when its sold a few weeks later after purchase.



didds

pje16 wrote:

Dod101 wrote:
PS Who is Enterprise Car Rental?

Have never heard of them but google throws this up
https://www.enterprise.co.uk/en/busines ... ement.html
look like a business arrangement

Thanks I could have done that myself, sorry!

Dod

pochisoldi wrote:My car got hit by a lorry whilst parked.
A witness saw what happened, left a note on my windscreen, and reported it to the police.
I called the police and got the "crime reference" number.
They wont give me the witnesses details (data protection), but the police will provide it to an insurer.

It depresses me how bloody unhelpful the police are in these situations, using data protection as an excuse for idle indifference.

They conveniently ignore the fact that the DP provisions don't apply where data is requested in this type of situation. The letter of the law is contained in Schedule 2 Part 1 paragraph 5 (3) of the Data Protection Act 2018, and the relevant exemption reads as follows:

5(3)The listed GDPR provisions do not apply to personal data where disclosure of the data—

(a) is necessary for the purpose of, or in connection with, legal proceedings (including prospective legal proceedings),

(b) is necessary for the purpose of obtaining legal advice, or

(c) is otherwise necessary for the purposes of establishing, exercising or defending legal rights,

to the extent that the application of those provisions would prevent the controller from making the disclosure.

Quite clearly, your request falls within this category, and you might like to point this out, though by the time you finally persuade them that you're right it'll all be academic.

You don't say whether the witness recorded the registration of the vehicle, but I assume they did, otherwise their evidence would be pretty useless. You can therefore find out details of the vehicle's insurers via the Motor Insurance Database - https://www.askmid.com/

If you contact them it's possible (though unlikely) that the accident may have been reported. However, the police can supply details of the witness statement to them, and they may be willing to accept liability straight away. If so, they will probably offer to supply you with a hire car free of charge. You can then also negotiate with them regarding the cost of repairs, and hopefully you could reach a settlement without having to involve either solicitors or the court.

Even if they won't supply a car you could reasonably hire one, knowing that you would then be able to recover the hire charges.

You should, of course, keep your own insurers updated. If they can recover their own outlays from the insurers then you may be able to save your NCD, though unfortunately your premium may increase by more than the usual amount even though you weren't at fault.

Clitheroekid wrote:

pochisoldi wrote:My car got hit by a lorry whilst parked.
A witness saw what happened, left a note on my windscreen, and reported it to the police.
I called the police and got the "crime reference" number.
They wont give me the witnesses details (data protection), but the police will provide it to an insurer.

It depresses me how bloody unhelpful the police are in these situations, using data protection as an excuse for idle indifference.

They conveniently ignore the fact that the DP provisions don't apply where data is requested in this type of situation. The letter of the law is contained in Schedule 2 Part 1 paragraph 5 (3) of the Data Protection Act 2018, and the relevant exemption reads as follows:

5(3)The listed GDPR provisions do not apply to personal data where disclosure of the data—

(a) is necessary for the purpose of, or in connection with, legal proceedings (including prospective legal proceedings),

(b) is necessary for the purpose of obtaining legal advice, or

(c) is otherwise necessary for the purposes of establishing, exercising or defending legal rights,

to the extent that the application of those provisions would prevent the controller from making the disclosure.

Quite clearly, your request falls within this category, and you might like to point this out, though by the time you finally persuade them that you're right it'll all be academic.

You don't say whether the witness recorded the registration of the vehicle, but I assume they did, otherwise their evidence would be pretty useless. You can therefore find out details of the vehicle's insurers via the Motor Insurance Database - https://www.askmid.com/

If you contact them it's possible (though unlikely) that the accident may have been reported. However, the police can supply details of the witness statement to them, and they may be willing to accept liability straight away. If so, they will probably offer to supply you with a hire car free of charge. You can then also negotiate with them regarding the cost of repairs, and hopefully you could reach a settlement without having to involve either solicitors or the court.

Even if they won't supply a car you could reasonably hire one, knowing that you would then be able to recover the hire charges.

You should, of course, keep your own insurers updated. If they can recover their own outlays from the insurers then you may be able to save your NCD, though unfortunately your premium may increase by more than the usual amount even though you weren't at fault.

The witness made a note of the registration and the vehicle owner (it wasn't a plain white 7.5t truck) and left that information with "Police Informed" on the note left under the windscreen wiper.

I've had a further request for the witness details from my insurer's claim handler - I repeated what I told them earlier.

Before I replied I spoke to my local police force, and they say that the insurer will have to pay for the information, although I think the reality is that insurers have to pay for an accident report. Given that there was no "accident report" beyond "Truck reg A hit car reg B at place X time Y, and my details are blah", its a bit of a liberty, especially when the police say it will take 12 weeks after date of payment to arrive.

Looks like I will have to write a letter to the force data protection manager asking for the info, don't see why anyone should have to pay over £100 for information which was handed over freely by a well meaning member of the public.

PochiSoldi

pochisoldi wrote:My car got hit by a lorry whilst parked.

If you wanted to pursue Didds' notion of buying a stop-gap car, here are some timely suggestions from Hagerty.

V8

Letter drafted (to be sent when the postal strike ends):
Re Incident XXX of <date> Non-injury collision of truck with parked car

Dear Sir/Madam
I am the registered keeper of a <make/model>, registration mark <reg> which was struck while parked by a truck, registration <reg>.

In order to recover the loss I have suffered, please provide me with the details for the witness who reported the collision to you.

This information is required to allow me to exercise a legal right, and as such the disclosure is permitted by the Data Protection Act Schedule 2 Part 1 5(3)(c). “The listed GDPR provisions do not apply to personal data where the disclosure of the data… is otherwise necessary for the purposes of establishing, exercising or defending legal rights”

Yours etc.

Any comments?

Thanks for the comments so far

PochiSoldi

PS - Non-legal update
Car went in for repair last week, call yesterday said car should be done by tomorrow.
No replacement car needed (first time I've needed a car is tomorrow, so fingers crossed).
With a similar sized rental car going for under £500 for a fortnight, buying a "disposable car" wasn't worth the effort.
Out of pocket costs stand at £220 for new pair of tyres (should be paid by my insurer as part of damage to my car, then recovered back), and £150 excess.
Might go up tomorrow if I don't get the car back...

pochisoldi wrote:I called the police and got the "crime reference" number.
They wont give me the witnesses details (data protection), but the police will provide it to an insurer.

Hmm.... I agree with pochisoldi's data protection exemption.
I wonder what makes the police think that they have the right to 'favour' an insurer like this: if someone shunts my car when it is parked legally - i.e. there is no glimmer of culpability on my part - and no one is injured, my claim for property damage is against the other driver, not his/her insurer. The other driver has (we hope...) paid-up indemnity for third-party claims but that is their business.
(I may need to formally advise my own insurer, as this is probably a condition of my own insurance, but stress that no action is needed on their part)