A tale of a telephone box

[88V8]

The BT box in the village has been long decommissioned.
A few years ago it was passed by BT to the Parish Council and has since been a book exchange and a home for the defibrillator.

An adjacent houseowner now alleges that the box is on his land. It appears that this may be so, and by error no wayleave was obtained.

BT acknowledge that there should have been a wayleave, and would be happy to remove the box and have offered it to the PC who could house it in the garden of the village hall, but the houseowner has forbidden access to the box and is claiming £4,000 damages from the Council. The £4,000 has been plucked from the air....

In the unlikely event that the houseowner - a well-known village trouble-maker who has various grudges against the PC - in the unlikely event that they were to take it to the Small Claims Court, my understanding is that they would have to put down a fee of about 5%, and if they employed a solicitor they would not be able to recover costs.

The PC could in practice remove the books and the defib. Their concern is that the houseowner might in some way have a valid claim against the PC.

I do not see how that could arise... and in fact given that the box has been there for more than twelve years, istm that the PC could threaten to deprive the houseowner of the land by reason of adverse possession, and that the court would be unlikely to deny such application by virtue of equitable estoppel. I may be overreaching here....

Any thoughts?

V8

[didds]

i dont suppose life works this way but in a perfect world the PC could just say - OK, the box is yours. Bye.

leaving the householder with a box to dispose of.

(then see if BT has a spare box they can have for a simiilat use elsehwre etc),

life's never that simple...

[mutantpoodle]

i dont suppose life works this way but in a perfect world the PC could just say - OK, the box is yours. Bye.

leaving the householder with a box to dispose of.

(then see if BT has a spare box they can have for a simiilat use elsehwre etc),

life's never that simple...

but thats what the householder wants!
old BT phone boxes sell for a lot of money

[Dod101]

i dont suppose life works this way but in a perfect world the PC could just say - OK, the box is yours. Bye.

leaving the householder with a box to dispose of.

(then see if BT has a spare box they can have for a simiilat use elsehwre etc),

life's never that simple...

but thats what the householder wants!
old BT phone boxes sell for a lot of money

Let him have it. No one loses, he gains, so what?

Dod

[stewamax]

... given that the box has been there for more than twelve years, istm that the PC could threaten to deprive the houseowner of the land by reason of adverse possession, and that the court would be unlikely to deny such application by virtue of equitable estoppel. I may be overreaching here....

If the box is indeed on private land, is it also accessed over the private land or is it sited just off the highway or public path such that it can be reached without crossing the private land?

[DrFfybes]

BT/Openreach will have a pretty robust protocol for dealing with this, that the PC could follow. The general rule is to either remove it, or pay them to keep it there.

I've seen it often with streetlights or the cables supplying them, in all cases once the owner wass notified the owner of the offending article, it was removed from the private land and ground reinstated at the Council/DNO's expense. The houseowner was AFAIK never compensated. I'm pretty sure that if the houseowner is forbidding access, then they are accepting it should remain, and have no right to demand compensation.

I presume there is also an unmetered power supply to the box. If so then the power company can come along and remove it on safety grounds, wayleave or not. This could be done by digging up and capping the supply at the boundary, or may require excavation of the box foundations and removal of the box

Care to post a Google Streetview link to the offending box

Paul

[88V8]

BT/Openreach will have a pretty robust protocol for dealing with this, that the PC could follow. The general rule is to either remove it, or pay them to keep it there.

I've seen it often with streetlights or the cables supplying them, in all cases once the owner wass notified the owner of the offending article, it was removed from the private land and ground reinstated at the Council/DNO's expense. The houseowner was AFAIK never compensated. I'm pretty sure that if the houseowner is forbidding access, then they are accepting it should remain, and have no right to demand compensation.

I presume there is also an unmetered power supply to the box. If so then the power company can come along and remove it on safety grounds, wayleave or not. This could be done by digging up and capping the supply at the boundary, or may require excavation of the box foundations and removal of the box

Care to post a Google Streetview link to the offending box

As it would link to a sign containing the pita's name, better not

Unfortunately it's not a nice cast-iron red box.
The box is accessed from the street and does indeed have a power supply. Hehheh nice idea.

V8

[Clitheroekid]

The starting point is to verify that the box is actually on the PITA's land - has this been done?

[88V8]

The starting point is to verify that the box is actually on the PITA's land - has this been done?

That point has been conceded by BT.
Annoying when the pita starts from a position of at least vague merit.

V8

[moorfield]

Moderator Message:
Text removed. I appreciate the intention was as a joke, but this is Legal Issue - Practical so it's off-topic (chas49)

[XFool]

The starting point is to verify that the box is actually on the PITA's land - has this been done?

That point has been conceded by BT.

Is it known how that came to be, in the first place?

[Mike4]

The starting point is to verify that the box is actually on the PITA's land - has this been done?

That point has been conceded by BT.
Annoying when the pita starts from a position of at least vague merit.

V8

But has anyone attempte to verify BT's concession? After all there is nothing in it for them to expend any effort whatsoever denying it.

[88V8]

The starting point is to verify that the box is actually on the PITA's land - has this been done?

That point has been conceded by BT.

Is it known how that came to be, in the first place?

Too long ago. And after all, if the GPO came and started planting a phone box on a bit of land you didn't even know you owned, you wouldn't kick up about it.

The starting point is to verify that the box is actually on the PITA's land - has this been done?

That point has been conceded by BT.

But has anyone attempted to verify BT's concession? After all there is nothing in it for them to expend any effort whatsoever denying it.

The pita has also written to BT demanding compensation. Their response is that they will remove the box and give it to the Village Hall, but as I mentioned in the OP the pita has forbidden anyone to touch it.

V8

[Mike4]

The starting point is to verify that the box is actually on the PITA's land - has this been done?

That point has been conceded by BT.

Is it known how that came to be, in the first place?

Too long ago. And after all, if the GPO came and started planting a phone box on a bit of land you didn't even know you owned, you wouldn't kick up about it.

The starting point is to verify that the box is actually on the PITA's land - has this been done?

That point has been conceded by BT.

But has anyone attempted to verify BT's concession? After all there is nothing in it for them to expend any effort whatsoever denying it.

The pita has also written to BT demanding compensation. Their response is that they will remove the box and give it to the Village Hall, but as I mentioned in the OP the pita has forbidden anyone to touch it.

V8

Point remains. Has anyone on your side verified BT's capitulation by working out who really does own the land the box stands on? Or are you relying on PITA's assertion and BT's lawyers?

[Clitheroekid]

The starting point is to verify that the box is actually on the PITA's land - has this been done?

That point has been conceded by BT.
Annoying when the pita starts from a position of at least vague merit.

It may be that BT have conceded because they can't be bothered to check - after all, it's of no real interest to them. And it's by no means unusual for people to claim they own land that they don't, especially if they think there's a few bob in it.

Have you checked yourself on the LR website? It only takes a couple of minutes - https://www.gov.uk/search-property-info ... d-registry

[Mike4]

The starting point is to verify that the box is actually on the PITA's land - has this been done?

That point has been conceded by BT.
Annoying when the pita starts from a position of at least vague merit.

It may be that BT have conceded because they can't be bothered to check - after all, it's of no real interest to them. And it's by no means unusual for people to claim they own land that they don't, especially if they think there's a few bob in it.

Have you checked yourself on the LR website? It only takes a couple of minutes - https://www.gov.uk/search-property-info ... d-registry

This is where it falls down surely. How would the OP discover the postcode of this phone box?

[staffordian]

The starting point is to verify that the box is actually on the PITA's land - has this been done?

That point has been conceded by BT.
Annoying when the pita starts from a position of at least vague merit.

It may be that BT have conceded because they can't be bothered to check - after all, it's of no real interest to them. And it's by no means unusual for people to claim they own land that they don't, especially if they think there's a few bob in it.

Have you checked yourself on the LR website? It only takes a couple of minutes - https://www.gov.uk/search-property-info ... d-registry

This is where it falls down surely. How would the OP discover the postcode of this phone box?

Surely he can easily find the postcode of the PITA's home, and I assume (perhaps wrongly?) that the offending box is on the edge of this property.

[88V8]

The starting point is to verify that the box is actually on the PITA's land - has this been done?

That point has been conceded by BT.

It may be that BT have conceded because they can't be bothered to check - after all, it's of no real interest to them.
Have you checked yourself on the LR website? It only takes a couple of minutes - https://www.gov.uk/search-property-info ... d-registry

Mmm, no.
I've opened an account and I'll see what's available.
However, it does say Although this service provides information from the title register, this information is not guaranteed and may not be sufficient to prove property ownership or rights. For a guaranteed copy, you'll need to order an official copy of the register instead.

Edit.... just bought a download of our own boundary... it's spectacularly vague.... boundary lines two feet wide, and despite being dated Jan 89, it shows a garage that was knocked done in 1972, and of course doesn't show boundary changes from the 1990s & 2010s nor our own garage built in 2015. No wonder there are so many boundary disputes....

I could pay another £3 for an 'Official Copy' but whether it's any better or just a copy of what I see already....
Mmm.

V8

[servodude]

Thinking outside the (phone) box
Could you populate it with "phone this PITA for a good time!" cards?
Just until they're begging for it to be removed

[Clitheroekid]

The starting point is to verify that the box is actually on the PITA's land - has this been done?

That point has been conceded by BT.

It may be that BT have conceded because they can't be bothered to check - after all, it's of no real interest to them.
Have you checked yourself on the LR website? It only takes a couple of minutes - https://www.gov.uk/search-property-info ... d-registry

Mmm, no.
I've opened an account and I'll see what's available.
However, it does say Although this service provides information from the title register, this information is not guaranteed and may not be sufficient to prove property ownership or rights. For a guaranteed copy, you'll need to order an official copy of the register instead.

When I access the LR website there's a facility called Map Search. You just type in the postcode (as has been suggested, use a neighbouring property) and it shows the map for that area with each property's individual title. It should then be very easy to identify the land where the box is situated.

However, I access the LR via a professional portal, and I'm not sure if the public portal has the same facilities, though I'd expect that it would.

You don't need to bother about that disclaimer. There's no practical difference between what you'll receive and an official copy.