The Lemon Fool

I've just come across an article in Sunday Times Money by Hunter Davies about dealing with probate following his wife's death last year, which I only glanced at briefly at the time and kept to read later but got buried in the pile. I know he and his wife (the author Margaret Forster) were very well off and certainly form 400 had to be filled in and yes, he did use a solicitor after he had done all the donkey work and was charged around £2,500.

What surprised me was that he said he had received a bereavement allowance of £2000 "out of the blue", though my understanding is that one has to apply for it. Perhaps the solicitor applied for him. I didn't bother as it didn't seem as though I would be eligible. I'd love to know how they were. Perhaps his wife didn't pay National Insurance contributions or receive a state pension but I'm blowed if I can see why that should be a reason to receive it rather than the contrary.

Bouleversee wrote:... What surprised me was that he said he had received a bereavement allowance of £2000 ... I didn't bother as it didn't seem as though I would be eligible. I'd love to know how they were. Perhaps his wife didn't pay National Insurance contributions or receive a state pension but I'm blowed if I can see why that should be a reason to receive it rather than the contrary.

The £2,000 would suggest the payment was a "Bereavement Payment" rather than a "Bereavement Allowance":

https://www.gov.uk/bereavement-payment

I think you already knew that, in view of your comments concerning the state pension etc.

I imagine the reason the survivor might have received the Payment is to compensate for the fact that he might not have the full State Pension entitlement himself (rather than, in the case you mention, the deceased):

This https://www.nidirect.gov.uk/articles/wh ... en-you-die (I haven't found the non-Northern Ireland version), includes (my bold):

"Your widow, widower or surviving civil partner may be entitled to some State Pension based on your National Insurance contributions (NICs) if they have not already built up a full basic State Pension on their own NICs record."

My wife died last year at age 60 (A good deal younger than me!) Like Hunter Davies I too got £2000 Bereavement Allowance not quite out of the blue but almost. I did not actively apply for it but I think was asked to supply either her or mine or both National Insurance Numbers by the Pensions people I think. They knew she had died because of the 'Once only' arrangements the Registrars now put in place when you register the death. It depended I think on whether she had paid sufficient NI contributions. She was not at the time of her death in receipt of the State pension if that makes any difference.

The thing to do Bouleversee is ring say the CAB and ask them. The benefit system is a complete mystery to me.

Dod

PD - You are quite right. I can't think what made me type allowance when I had googled payment; senile dementia I suppose. I can't think Hunter Davies doesn't pay NI contributions as he is still working, though possibly self-employed as he has fingers in lots of pies. He is over 80 but may have chosen to defer his state pension if he doesn't need it, though I can't see the point of that. I did have a state pension, not quite the full amount despite paying over £2k (IIRC, 20 yrs ago) in voluntary contributions, but have now lost it as I get my husband's instead, but I didn't get any £2k bereavement payment. Maybe you don't have to pay NI if you are self employed but have not incorporated. I expect you all know that the triple lock doesn't apply to additional pension payments. Last year there was no increase; this year it will be 1%, not the 2.5% applied to the basic pension.

Or perhaps it's only paid to men when their wives die!

I'm not commenting on the Hunter Davies position, as I'm more interested in trying to assist with your situation!

Bouleversee wrote:... I did have a state pension, not quite the full amount despite paying over £2k (IIRC, 20 yrs ago) in voluntary contributions, but have now lost it as I get my husband's instead, but I didn't get any £2k bereavement payment. ...

If you get your husbands State Pension then the "Bereavement Payment" does not come into play as your husband was entitled to a State Pension based on his own national insurance contributions.

Or perhaps it's only paid to men when their wives die!

That was in gest, yes?

Or jest even. Many thanks, PD, for your efforts to assist yet again. Much appreciated. And also thanks to Dod for his contribution.

Bouleversee wrote:Or jest even.

Indeed (just testing).

Many thanks, PD, for your efforts to assist yet again. Much appreciated. And also thanks to Dod for his contribution.

Looking again, I think I got it wrong the first time around and Dod was correct.

"You may be able to get Bereavement Payment if when X died, you were ...:

over State Pension age and your husband, wife or civil partner wasn’t entitled to a State Pension based on their own national insurance contributions".

So it was Hunter Davies' wife's State Pension position that was relevant after all but this doesn't appear to alter your situation.

Bouleversee wrote:PD - You are quite right. I can't think what made me type allowance when I had googled payment; senile dementia I suppose. I can't think Hunter Davies doesn't pay NI contributions as he is still working, though possibly self-employed as he has fingers in lots of pies. He is over 80 but may have chosen to defer his state pension if he doesn't need it, though I can't see the point of that. I did have a state pension, not quite the full amount despite paying over £2k (IIRC, 20 yrs ago) in voluntary contributions, but have now lost it as I get my husband's instead, but I didn't get any £2k bereavement payment. Maybe you don't have to pay NI if you are self employed but have not incorporated. I expect you all know that the triple lock doesn't apply to additional pension payments. Last year there was no increase; this year it will be 1%, not the 2.5% applied to the basic pension.

I don't think NICs are paid after you reach state pension age -

https://www.nidirect.gov.uk/articles/na ... ension-age

Leither.

Leither wrote:

Bouleversee wrote:PD - You are quite right. I can't think what made me type allowance when I had googled payment; senile dementia I suppose. I can't think Hunter Davies doesn't pay NI contributions as he is still working, though possibly self-employed as he has fingers in lots of pies. He is over 80 but may have chosen to defer his state pension if he doesn't need it, though I can't see the point of that. I did have a state pension, not quite the full amount despite paying over £2k (IIRC, 20 yrs ago) in voluntary contributions, but have now lost it as I get my husband's instead, but I didn't get any £2k bereavement payment. Maybe you don't have to pay NI if you are self employed but have not incorporated. I expect you all know that the triple lock doesn't apply to additional pension payments. Last year there was no increase; this year it will be 1%, not the 2.5% applied to the basic pension.

I don't think NICs are paid after you reach state pension age -

https://www.nidirect.gov.uk/articles/na ... ension-age

Leither.

Well, I know you don't if you are not working and are drawing your state pension but I don't know whether you do if you are still working. There must ne some explanation as to why they got the bereavement payment and I didn't, not that I feel I should have had one. Just curious.

I completely missed out on the allowance because I wasn't aware of it. I think you get a year to claim it but it was too late for me.

April

Here's a more general gov.uk link about NICs after pension age (not just for Northern Ireland in case the rules are different - although I doubt they are!):

https://www.gov.uk/tax-national-insuran ... -insurance

Bouleversee wrote:

Leither wrote:

Bouleversee wrote:PD - You are quite right. I can't think what made me type allowance when I had googled payment; senile dementia I suppose. I can't think Hunter Davies doesn't pay NI contributions as he is still working, though possibly self-employed as he has fingers in lots of pies. He is over 80 but may have chosen to defer his state pension if he doesn't need it, though I can't see the point of that. I did have a state pension, not quite the full amount despite paying over £2k (IIRC, 20 yrs ago) in voluntary contributions, but have now lost it as I get my husband's instead, but I didn't get any £2k bereavement payment. Maybe you don't have to pay NI if you are self employed but have not incorporated. I expect you all know that the triple lock doesn't apply to additional pension payments. Last year there was no increase; this year it will be 1%, not the 2.5% applied to the basic pension.

I don't think NICs are paid after you reach state pension age -

https://www.nidirect.gov.uk/articles/na ... ension-age

Leither.

Well, I know you don't if you are not working and are drawing your state pension but I don't know whether you do if you are still working. There must ne some explanation as to why they got the bereavement payment and I didn't, not that I feel I should have had one. Just curious.

I now realise that I'd stupidly given the NI version rather than the whole of the UK one but nevertheless I thought it was clear that you don't pay NICs once you reach state pension age, even if you're working. I know this from personal experience.

Regards,

Leither.

I think the answer may be that his wife had not paid NI contributions before pension age because she didn't have a job as such, though would have had earnings from her books, and wasn't drawing a state pension, but it seems bizarre that the surviving spouse qualifies for the £2k bereavement payment in that case whereas where the deceased spouse had paid NI contributions and is drawing a state pension, the surviving spouse does not. However, enough already. No point in speculating further.