Late vacant possession on completion

[Sworddancer]

Hi,

We recently purchased a house and the vendors did not vacate the property until 9.30pm (the contract time was 1pm and at 2pm we were informed it would be 4.30pm). As a result our removal men sat outside the property for 3 hours and had to come back the following day to unload. The upshot is that we had additional costs for moving and our overnight accommodation.

I have been back through our solicitors who have contacted the vendors solicitors asking for compensation to no effect and my solicitors say they don't do litigation.

Should I just write this off? I am inclined to send a 7day before action letter and then go through the small claims court I but don't know the vendors new address. Can I action it through their solicitors? They have already declined to tell me the vendors new address.

Thanks
Peter

[Lootman]

A solicitor who doesn't do litigation? I thought that was all they did!

It's really too bad that the buyer's solicitors do not hold back a small proportion of the funds to cover situations like this. To ensure successful performance of the contract from the other side.

[Sworddancer]

I guess the solicitors specialize and our only does conveyancing and wills.

[chas49]

I guess the solicitors specialize and our only does conveyancing and wills.

Your contract will (should) specify what happens on (late) completion. It's likely that the contract incorporates the Standard Conditions of Sale. Ask your solicitor to explain what the contract says about this.

You can see a sample contract with the standard terms here: https://prdsitecore93.azureedge.net/-/m ... y-2018.pdf (Law Society website)

It makes no sense for your solicitor to say they don't do litigation - they have drawn up a contract for you, and should deal with any breach on your behalf.

(IANAL)

[Dod101]

Hi,

We recently purchased a house and the vendors did not vacate the property until 9.30pm (the contract time was 1pm and at 2pm we were informed it would be 4.30pm). As a result our removal men sat outside the property for 3 hours and had to come back the following day to unload. The upshot is that we had additional costs for moving and our overnight accommodation.

I have been back through our solicitors who have contacted the vendors solicitors asking for compensation to no effect and my solicitors say they don't do litigation.

Should I just write this off? I am inclined to send a 7day before action letter and then go through the small claims court I but don't know the vendors new address. Can I action it through their solicitors? They have already declined to tell me the vendors new address.

Thanks
Peter

Was there any explanation? Say for example if somebody took ill or worse there might be some excuse otherwise what on earth were they doing until 9.30 pm? I would certainly pursue it because you have legitimate extra expense which they should be covering. Good luck.

Dod

[staffordian]

I have been back through our solicitors who have contacted the vendors solicitors asking for compensation to no effect and my solicitors say they don't do litigation.

I wonder if the conveyancing was done by solicitors or a licensed conveyancer?

If the latter, it might explain their inability to do anything beyond the basics of contacting the other party, which you say they did?

Sorry that's no real help with your next steps, but it might just give some context to further suggestions others might have.

[Mike4]

Hi,

We recently purchased a house and the vendors did not vacate the property until 9.30pm (the contract time was 1pm and at 2pm we were informed it would be 4.30pm). As a result our removal men sat outside the property for 3 hours and had to come back the following day to unload. The upshot is that we had additional costs for moving and our overnight accommodation.

I have been back through our solicitors who have contacted the vendors solicitors asking for compensation to no effect and my solicitors say they don't do litigation.

Should I just write this off? I am inclined to send a 7day before action letter and then go through the small claims court I but don't know the vendors new address. Can I action it through their solicitors? They have already declined to tell me the vendors new address.

Thanks
Peter

Well surely this is where solicitors (collectively) fail. A truly diligent solicitor would attend the property and satisfy themselves that vacant possession is available before transmitting the funds, in my opinion. Obviously yours didn't do this, they just sent the funds and hoped.

Or maybe they suggested you might like to check for vacant possession and give final permission to complete? I'm pretty sure my solicitor used to do this with me whenever I bought a house although I have to admit I can't remember clearly.

[88V8]

I am inclined to send a 7day before action letter and then go through the small claims court I but don't know the vendors new address. Can I action it through their solicitors? They have already declined to tell me the vendors new address.

I dare say the vendors have arranged for mail to be forwarded, so if you write to them at their old address they will receive the letter, and you can copy it to their solicitors for good measure.
Do you need a solicitor to go to the Small Claims Court? You have the contract, you can read what it says.
The Court is designed to be DIY

Assuming you really want to bother... I mean, I realise it's all a bit raw just now, but....

V8

[staffordian]

I dare say the vendors have arranged for mail to be forwarded, so if you write to them at their old address they will receive the letter, and you can copy it to their solicitors for good measure.

Sounds illogical, as they'd be sending it to their own address, but as you say, especially with them not giving the OP a forwarding address, they may well have set up a Royal Mail forwarding arrangement, which should catch it.

[Mike4]

I am inclined to send a 7day before action letter and then go through the small claims court I but don't know the vendors new address. Can I action it through their solicitors? They have already declined to tell me the vendors new address.

I dare say the vendors have arranged for mail to be forwarded, so if you write to them at their old address they will receive the letter, and you can copy it to their solicitors for good measure.
Do you need a solicitor to go to the Small Claims Court? You have the contract, you can read what it says.
The Court is designed to be DIY

Assuming you really want to bother... I mean, I realise it's all a bit raw just now, but....

V8

I'm vaguely taken aback at the OP's intention to sue. The problem might well not have been of the vendor's making either. I could well have originated further up the chain. I would just suck it up and get on with my life. But I do tend to always look forward rather than fret about stuff that can't be changed.

[DrFfybes]

Well surely this is where solicitors (collectively) fail. A truly diligent solicitor would attend the property and satisfy themselves that vacant possession is available before transmitting the funds, in my opinion. Obviously yours didn't do this, they just sent the funds and hoped.

Or maybe they suggested you might like to check for vacant possession and give final permission to complete? I'm pretty sure my solicitor used to do this with me whenever I bought a house although I have to admit I can't remember clearly.

I've never known this to be the case.

Most of my moves have been over quite a distance, asking anyone to travel the 200 miles from Berkshire to Devon or Devon to Shropshire to check the house was empty BEFORE transferring the money is impractical, especially as the vendor will want my money to fund their purchase, which thay won't do until their new property is empty, etc etc.

[Dod101]

Well surely this is where solicitors (collectively) fail. A truly diligent solicitor would attend the property and satisfy themselves that vacant possession is available before transmitting the funds, in my opinion. Obviously yours didn't do this, they just sent the funds and hoped.

Or maybe they suggested you might like to check for vacant possession and give final permission to complete? I'm pretty sure my solicitor used to do this with me whenever I bought a house although I have to admit I can't remember clearly.

I've never known this to be the case.

Most of my moves have been over quite a distance, asking anyone to travel the 200 miles from Berkshire to Devon or Devon to Shropshire to check the house was empty BEFORE transferring the money is impractical, especially as the vendor will want my money to fund their purchase, which thay won't do until their new property is empty, etc etc.

I was about to say the same. I have never ever come across a solicitor who would physically check on vacant possession. I had a case once when I had a binding contract for sale and my buyer pulled out at the last minute. I claimed and got my expenses for breach of contract, mainly I think the loss of interest and the expense of having to remarket. I would certainly follow this up because the OP has clearly identifiable additional expenses, but as I said before, I would try to discover what the problem was which delayed the seller so much.

Dod

[Mike4]

Well surely this is where solicitors (collectively) fail. A truly diligent solicitor would attend the property and satisfy themselves that vacant possession is available before transmitting the funds, in my opinion. Obviously yours didn't do this, they just sent the funds and hoped.

Or maybe they suggested you might like to check for vacant possession and give final permission to complete? I'm pretty sure my solicitor used to do this with me whenever I bought a house although I have to admit I can't remember clearly.

I've never known this to be the case.

Most of my moves have been over quite a distance, asking anyone to travel the 200 miles from Berkshire to Devon or Devon to Shropshire to check the house was empty BEFORE transferring the money is impractical, especially as the vendor will want my money to fund their purchase, which thay won't do until their new property is empty, etc etc.

I was about to say the same. I have never ever come across a solicitor who would physically check on vacant possession. I had a case once when I had a binding contract for sale and my buyer pulled out at the last minute. I claimed and got my expenses for breach of contract, mainly I think the loss of interest and the expense of having to remarket. I would certainly follow this up because the OP has clearly identifiable additional expenses, but as I said before, I would try to discover what the problem was which delayed the seller so much.

Dod

I quite agree, I've never encountered a sol who would do this. My current sol does however, recommend I visit myself to check for vacant possession before they transmit the money.

I first saw the idea floated in the book "The Great Conveyancing Fraud" by Michael Joseph, specifically to head off the occasional problem exactly as outlined in the OP.

Its all very well saying 'its not practical' etc, which is often but not always correct. If you and the OP are happy to let the problem happen to you and sue for damages later, that's your choice. I'm different, I prefer to stop it happening in the first place with my purchases. No vacant possession when I go round and check, no money gets sent and no long drawn-out court cases suing for compensation necessary.

[DrFfybes]

Its all very well saying 'its not practical' etc, which is often but not always correct. If you and the OP are happy to let the problem happen to you and sue for damages later, that's your choice. I'm different, I prefer to stop it happening in the first place with my purchases. No vacant possession when I go round and check, no money gets sent and no long drawn-out court cases suing for compensation necessary.

That's all well and good, but money tends to move up the chain, not down it, and if you are in a chain your house is gone, sold, and paid for, so the end result is still that you have nowhere to live and your possessions in a van.

Paul

[Clitheroekid]

Do you need a solicitor to go to the Small Claims Court? You have the contract, you can read what it says.
The Court is designed to be DIY

The OP may well be able to read the contract, but whether they will understand it or not is a different matter!

Residential conveyancing is governed by the Standard Conditions of Sale, and in order to understand your contractual rights you will need access to the full set of conditions - https://www.lawsociety.org.uk/topics/pr ... ns-of-sale

The relevant provisons that govern this situation are set out in condition 7.2:

7.2 Late completion
7.2.1 If there is default by either or both of the parties in performing their obligations under the contract and completion is delayed, the party whose total period of default is the greater is to pay compensation to the other party.
7.2.2 Compensation is calculated at the contract rate on an amount equal to the purchase price, less (where the buyer is the paying party) any deposit paid, for the period by which the paying party's default exceeds that of the receiving party, or, if shorter, the period between completion date and actual completion.
7.2.3 Any claim for loss resulting from delayed completion is to be reduced by any compensation paid under this contract.

So as an interesting exercise I'd like to invite any aspiring contract lawyers to interpret the contract and advise the OP. I'll then award marks out of 10 and explain the actual rights that the OP has

[88V8]

Do you need a solicitor to go to the Small Claims Court? You have the contract, you can read what it says.
The Court is designed to be DIY

The OP may well be able to read the contract, but whether they will understand it or not is a different matter!
So as an interesting exercise I'd like to invite any aspiring contract lawyers to interpret the contract and advise the OP. I'll then award marks out of 10 and explain the actual rights that the OP has

So, for null points, the current Contract Rate is 7%, so I would apply 7% to the purchase price prorata temporis the delay.

If for example the price were £800,000 then that would be 7% pro rata from 1300h to the time at which the vendor could reasonably be said to have access for the removal men, say 0800h the next day, that's 19 hours, which works out to £121.

Hmm. Hardly worth the bother.

V8

[newlyretired]

If for example the price were £800,000 then that would be 7% pro rata from 1300h to the time at which the vendor could reasonably be said to have access for the removal men, say 0800h the next day, that's 19 hours, which works out to £121.

Hmm. Hardly worth the bother.

V8

Well I think that you need to factor in the actual additional costs incurred (for the move and overnight accomodation) and charge for whichever is greater, the interest or the additional costs incurred.

newlyretired

[88V8]

If for example the price were £800,000 then that would be 7% pro rata from 1300h to the time at which the vendor could reasonably be said to have access for the removal men, say 0800h the next day, that's 19 hours, which works out to £121.

Well I think that you need to factor in the actual additional costs incurred (for the move and overnight accomodation) and charge for whichever is greater, the interest or the additional costs incurred.

Mmm, yes, well '7.2.3 Any claim for loss resulting from delayed completion is to be reduced by any compensation paid under this contract could be read to mean that there might exist a valid claim in addition to the amount payable under the contract.
Valid might then include reasonable overnight accommodation, demurrage costs if any. That would make it more worthwhile to pursue.

V8

[eisman]

Clitheroekid wrote:

Residential conveyancing is governed by the Standard Conditions of Sale, and in order to understand your contractual rights you will need access to the full set of conditions - https://www.lawsociety.org.uk/topics/pr ... ns-of-sale

The relevant provisions that govern this situation are set out in condition 7.2:

7.2 Late completion
7.2.1 If there is default by either or both of the parties in performing their obligations under the contract and completion is delayed, the party whose total period of default is the greater is to pay compensation to the other party.
7.2.2 Compensation is calculated at the contract rate on an amount equal to the purchase price, less (where the buyer is the paying party) any deposit paid, for the period by which the paying party's default exceeds that of the receiving party, or, if shorter, the period between completion date and actual completion.
7.2.3 Any claim for loss resulting from delayed completion is to be reduced by any compensation paid under this contract.

So as an interesting exercise I'd like to invite any aspiring contract lawyers to interpret the contract and advise the OP. I'll then award marks out of 10 and explain the actual rights that the OP has

I have no aspiration to be a contract lawyer. However, reading the quoted text in the context of the circumstances here, I would question whether there has actually been 'late completion' for condition 7.2 to apply.

What seems to me to have happened is that completion took place at 1pm (assuming the balance of purchase consideration was paid then) and, from that point onward, the vendors were trespassing in the buyer's property.

No idea what compensation rights the purchaser has in those circumstances (rent?).

[88V8]

7.2 Late completion
7.2.1 If there is default by either or both of the parties in performing their obligations under the contract and completion is delayed...

I have no aspiration to be a contract lawyer. However, reading the quoted text in the context of the circumstances here, I would question whether there has actually been 'late completion' for condition 7.2 to apply.

What seems to me to have happened is that completion took place at 1pm (assuming the balance of purchase consideration was paid then) and, from that point onward, the vendors were trespassing in the buyer's property.

No idea what compensation rights the purchaser has in those circumstances (rent?).

If the contract specifies vacant possession upon completion, then the vendor was 'in default in performing their obligations under the contract' so has completion actually taken place?

No wonder the law is so expensive....

V8