Entrapment?

[Leothebear]

Boy am I mad! I've just been sent a "Parking Charge Notice" from APCOA Parking operating at Heathrow (T2). I was dropping off a friend and saw the hastily added £5 Fee signs bolted on to the "Drop off zone" signs. I wasn't surprised, we all know that these days airports attempt to extact every last penny.

I dropped off my friend and fully expected to encounter a barrier to pay the fee. There wasn't one. I assumed that they had yet to be put in place and drove on.

What would you do? Circle back and seek out where to pay?

To me this is thinly disguised entrapment. I am determined not to pay their fine and feel my reasons are just.

Where would I stand were it to to court?

[mc2fool]

I take it you didn't see any signs (if, indeed, any existed) giving the info at: https://www.heathrow.com/transport-and-directions/terminal-drop-off-charge

Some possibly interesting advice here: https://moneynerd.co.uk/heathrow-drop-off-pcn/

[GoSeigen]

Some possibly interesting advice here: https://moneynerd.co.uk/heathrow-drop-off-pcn/

Possibly interesting but I wouldn't rely on it. It looks no more than an advertorial to me. It is poorly written with glaring errors and omissions, for example it refers to committing an offence but without any reference to the law defining that offence.


I do agree with the basic idea that you should not roll over. My approach would be to write a Without Prejudice letter explaining you're perfectly happy to pay their £5 fee and would have done so at the time if their signs had made it clear from your car (which you are not permitted to leave unattended to go off and read small writing on signs) how it should be paid. Would they kindly send you an invoice for £5 with details of how to pay. You deny any further liability and if they require any further payment they will need to go to court to prove their claim. EDIT: perhaps you could even enclose the £5 payment in full and final settlement which would oblige them to reply and return it if they don't agree.

GS

[Arborbridge]

There are VERY prominent signs approaching the terminal that they now charge. Thus far, there's not much excuse. The interesting part is once one is committed, how should one pay? I think I might have been a bit worried about that and possibly wandered around asking whoever I could find. I expect ther would have been a phone number stuck up somewhere. I don't accept GoSeigen's point that one is not allowed to leave one's car to read a sign - I would just do it.
Good luck with APCOA - I hear they are extremely difficult to deal with. For that reason I've kept all my recent receipts from the station car park as I don't trust them not to claim I hadn't paid.

GoSeigen's plan seems a good one.


Arb.

[Leothebear]

Thanks for the advice so far.

Seeems to me the APCOA thought they'd save money by not providing a pay barrier and make a pile in fines at the same time. Scum.

The £5 fee IS well indicated but how to pay is not.

I'll willingly pay the £5 but they can take me to court to screw any more out of me.

[XFool]

I think, in terms of how they are operated, the essential truth with this kind of thing is that they are simply a business model for (expletive deleted).

Moderator Message:
Keep it clean, please.

TJH

[Mike4]

Similar arguments have happened on the canal system were CRT have put up signs saying (for example) Free mooring for 2 days, further days £25 per day, with no method of paying offered.

They are widely regarded as unenforceable given there is no way to accept the 'offer of contract' by paying. Back at the start of all this CRT would add the cost (if caught) to the license fee at next renewal but those who argued the point found their fee cancelled with no court appearance necessary.

[Newroad]

Hi LeoTheBear.

My experience is based on T5 rather than T2 - however I am assuming it's all similar - it may not be.

I don't have much sympathy for you (nor did I have with myself the two times that I dropped-off and forgot to pay - just got busy and didn't do it ). Conversely, In San Francisco, I once went in the wrong lane over one of the bridges (where I could have paid at a barrier) so frantically had to get the hotel where I was staying to help me figure out how to pay - it would have been worse because the hire car company would have charged me an extra admin fee as well, no doubt.

You can make the argument about no barrier (with option to pay there) but I would counter-argue that a barrier-less system is more efficient and you, me and others spend less time waiting to exit.

Also, you can make the argument about profiteering, but having a small but non-trivial charge at point of use helps avoid clogging things up (think of the effect this might have in a UK doctor's surgery as well).

Sorry if this is not what you wanted to hear, but it is written in good faith. Personally, I would pay the £40 quickly (reduced from £80) and get on with life.

Regards, Newroad

[Watis]

Boy am I mad! I've just been sent a "Parking Charge Notice" from APCOA Parking operating at Heathrow (T2). I was dropping off a friend and saw the hastily added £5 Fee signs bolted on to the "Drop off zone" signs. I wasn't surprised, we all know that these days airports attempt to extact every last penny.

I dropped off my friend and fully expected to encounter a barrier to pay the fee. There wasn't one. I assumed that they had yet to be put in place and drove on.

What would you do? Circle back and seek out where to pay?

To me this is thinly disguised entrapment. I am determined not to pay their fine and feel my reasons are just.

Where would I stand were it to to court?

The charge can only be paid online or by phone.

Full details here, for the benefit of others reading this and needing to use the drop off facility in future:

https://www.heathrow.com/transport-and- ... off-charge

The web page confirms that circling back would result in two fees being levied.

Good luck with your appeal though.

Watis

[swill453]

The charge can only be paid online or by phone.

Full details here, for the benefit of others reading this and needing to use the drop off facility in future:

https://www.heathrow.com/transport-and- ... off-charge

I note that that link (which was also provided earlier in the thread) doesn't say how long you have to pay the £5 charge before it turns into a demand for £80/£40. Does it have to be the same day, or within 24 hours, or what?

Scott.

[Mike4]

The charge can only be paid online or by phone.

Full details here, for the benefit of others reading this and needing to use the drop off facility in future:

https://www.heathrow.com/transport-and- ... off-charge

I note that that link (which was also provided earlier in the thread) doesn't say how long you have to pay the £5 charge before it turns into a demand for £80/£40. Does it have to be the same day, or within 24 hours, or what?

Scott.

The bit I don't understand is how the OP is supposed to know about that web page in the first place, given he drove to the drop off point and then away again without encountering any signage saying how to go about paying the five quids.

Or is the board saying there ARE signs, saying payment can be made on line?

[Watis]

The charge can only be paid online or by phone.

Full details here, for the benefit of others reading this and needing to use the drop off facility in future:

https://www.heathrow.com/transport-and- ... off-charge

I note that that link (which was also provided earlier in the thread) doesn't say how long you have to pay the £5 charge before it turns into a demand for £80/£40. Does it have to be the same day, or within 24 hours, or what?

Scott.

Thanks Scott; I only noticed the moneynerd link.

It's buried in the terms and conditions, but you have until midnight on the day after your visit to pay the charge without incurring a penalty.

Watis

[swill453]

Or is the board saying there ARE signs, saying payment can be made on line?

The OP said the signs were there. Presumably didn't read them properly. I don't know how prominent they are, or how readable from within the car.

Scott.

[Mike4]

Or is the board saying there ARE signs, saying payment can be made on line?

The OP said the signs were there. Presumably didn't read them properly. I don't know how prominent they are, or how readable from within the car.

Scott.

AsI understand it, the OP was saying there were signs announcing a £5 charge, but no information on them about how to pay.

[Howyoudoin]

Heathrow Airport Drop Off Stock Photos

https://www.alamy.com/stock-photo/heath ... y=relevant

[mc2fool]

Heathrow Airport Drop Off Stock Photos

https://www.alamy.com/stock-photo/heath ... y=relevant

Good find. I'd tried google street view but their snapshots were taken in Jan 2021.

So ... I don't think the OP is going to have much of a case for claiming no info on how to pay .... (https://heathrow.com/dropoff forwards to the page already linked to, twice, earlier)


(Source as per HWD's link above)

[swill453]

So ... I don't think the OP is going to have much of a case for claiming no info on how to pay ....

I agree, but I wonder how considerate and user-friendly the signage is. One at the exit saying "Don't forget to pay your £5 before tomorrow night!" would be kind.

There may of course be one, I have no idea.

Scott.

[Watis]

So ... I don't think the OP is going to have much of a case for claiming no info on how to pay ....

I agree, but I wonder how considerate and user-friendly the signage is. One at the exit saying "Don't forget to pay your £5 before tomorrow night!" would be kind.

There may of course be one, I have no idea.

Scott.

When I dropped someone off at T5 a few months ago, I checked the website about paying the charge before making the journey because I had heard that it had been introduced. And my memory tells me that the payment deadline information was on the equivalent page that I and others linked to, and not buried away in the t&cs.

And, no, I don't recall seeing a sign on the exit reminding me to pay by the deadline...

Watis

[Mike4]

So ... I don't think the OP is going to have much of a case for claiming no info on how to pay ....

I agree, but I wonder how considerate and user-friendly the signage is. One at the exit saying "Don't forget to pay your £5 before tomorrow night!" would be kind.

There may of course be one, I have no idea.

Scott.

Looks to me as though the OP is bang to rights, or whatever the term is given the photo of the signs now posted.

I think there is an argument that "how to pay" ought to be just as prominent as the headline saying "£5 Drop Off Charge", i.e. in the same font and size (rather than significantly smaller and in a lightweight font rather than bold). But how to pay IS there in the signage, plain to see by those with their glasses on, so I think anyone arguing this will be starting from the back foot...

[Neutrino]

I found that the problem with the free drop off at T2 & T3 was that the attendants would complain if you stepped more than one pace away from the car to find a trolley or help your passenger with the bags. After the £5 drop off charge was introduced I decided to use the short term car park which is £5.30 for less than 30 minutes.

The problem was that it took 2 hours to drive the1 mile on the M4 link road between the motorway and the tunnel. I wondered if the problem was gridlock caused by too many drivers using the short stay car park instead of the £5 drop off.

It would have cost a lot more than £40 if the flight had been missed. One poor lady was walking along the central reservation pulling her suitcase.

I would pay the £40 PCN. Fighting is too much effort. I would not bet on winning unless there has been a clear breach of Schedule 4 of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012.