Bus lane fine

[daveh]

Just got one, but I think I was undertaking a broken down vehicle. I can see what looks to be it in the picture, but that doesn't appear to be one o the reasons you can appeal and if you appeal and lose you don't get the half price.

[Lootman]

Just got one, but I think I was undertaking a broken down vehicle. I can see what looks to be it in the picture, but that doesn't appear to be one o the reasons you can appeal and if you appeal and lose you don't get the half price.

Good question, perhaps you are instead supposed to cross the centre line to pass the obstruction? The fine for doing that is probably less.

Reminds me of the time I got a ticket for blocking a disabled access to a facility that I knew was closed on that day.

[yyuryyub]

Individual circumstances in getting fines can be so annoying. My wife works for the NHS and starts work at 8am. One Winter morning during the pandemic, her normal London Underground line had signal failures. I drove her to an overground station and dropped her at a safe place in the unfamiliar but spacious and deserted forecourt at 6:50am. She got to work early. Sadly, I hadn't noticed the bus stop with 24hr restriction and got fined. Very annoying, but I'll be more careful next time. There are other less safe places for a drop-off that are not covered by the fine-harvesting CCTV. Of course, there were no buses anywhere near at the time.

[Bminusrob]

When the highway code was updated recently, there was an opportunity to clarify when cars can reasonably enter bus lanes.

A similar change was made to the wording of crossing double white lines in the middle of the road. Until the highway code was updated, it was completely forbidden to cross such double white lines. However, it has now been updated to say that you are allowed to cross the lines to avoid an obstruction.

It would have been very sensible, and potentially life-saving to change the wording relating to bus lanes,to allow for example, cars to enter bus lanes to allow emergency vehicles to pass. A little voice inside me is telling me that there is probably a certain amount of malign bureacratic involvement here, to allow for the easy collection of fines from motorists.

[swill453]

if you appeal and lose you don't get the half price.

Is that really the case? With a parking Penalty Charge Notice (PCN) you still get the 50% discount if you pay it as soon as the appeal is rejected.

Scott.

[DrFfybes]

A similar change was made to the wording of crossing double white lines in the middle of the road. Until the highway code was updated, it was completely forbidden to cross such double white lines. However, it has now been updated to say that you are allowed to cross the lines to avoid an obstruction..

How old is your copy? You were allowed to pass an obstruction, horse, cyclist or slow moving vehicle since the 1970s.

Paul

[Lootman]

A similar change was made to the wording of crossing double white lines in the middle of the road. Until the highway code was updated, it was completely forbidden to cross such double white lines. However, it has now been updated to say that you are allowed to cross the lines to avoid an obstruction..

How old is your copy? You were allowed to pass an obstruction, horse, cyclist or slow moving vehicle since the 1970s.l

I don't know about Rob but my copy of the Highway Code is from 1972, when I passed my test! I haven't looked at it since.

FYI not everything in the Highway Code is reflected in traffic laws, so you won't necessarily get a ticket merely for transgressing it.

[daveh]

if you appeal and lose you don't get the half price.

Is that really the case? With a parking Penalty Charge Notice (PCN) you still get the 50% discount if you pay it as soon as the appeal is rejected.

Scott.

The letter says no discount if you appeal and lose. Not sure it is legal, but difficult to know what is true. They are making it easy to pay up and harder to appeal.

[Lootman]

if you appeal and lose you don't get the half price.

Is that really the case? With a parking Penalty Charge Notice (PCN) you still get the 50% discount if you pay it as soon as the appeal is rejected.

The letter says no discount if you appeal and lose. Not sure it is legal, but difficult to know what is true. They are making it easy to pay up and harder to appeal.

If so then the incentive is not only to pay quickly but to not fight it. That seems legally suspect to me. Is there an option to pay it but also appeal, getting a refund if you win?

Anyway I don't see it so much as a discount, but rather there is a penalty if you don't just fold like a cheap suit!

PS: How did they catch you? A bus with a dashcam?

[daveh]

if you appeal and lose you don't get the half price.

Is that really the case? With a parking Penalty Charge Notice (PCN) you still get the 50% discount if you pay it as soon as the appeal is rejected.

The letter says no discount if you appeal and lose. Not sure it is legal, but difficult to know what is true. They are making it easy to pay up and harder to appeal.

If so then the incentive is not only to pay quickly but to not fight it. That seems legally suspect to me. Is there an option to pay it but also appeal, getting a refund if you win?

Anyway I don't see it so much as a discount, but rather there is a penalty if you don't just fold like a cheap suit!

PS: How did they catch you? A bus with a dashcam?

Aberdeen has lots of bus lane cameras, bit like speed cameras.

[mutantpoodle]

part quote
50% discount if you pay it as soon as the appeal is rejected.
The letter says no discount if you appeal and lose. ..
.unquote

but isnt the difference in the words used

'rejected'...is not LOSE....it presumably hasnt invoilved much work as its 'rejected'

LOST means its been considered and work involved...?????????????

I am probably wrong but I would think each is different

[Dod101]

part quote
50% discount if you pay it as soon as the appeal is rejected.
The letter says no discount if you appeal and lose. ..
.unquote

but isnt the difference in the words used

'rejected'...is not LOSE....it presumably hasnt invoilved much work as its 'rejected'

LOST means its been considered and work involved...?????????????

I am probably wrong but I would think each is different

Well if you appeal, somebody decides if there are grounds for appeal. If not, the appeal is rejected, and the potential discount remains, but if your appeal is allowed and the appeal court rejects your claim, then no discount. That sounds reasonable to me.

Dod

[swill453]

part quote
50% discount if you pay it as soon as the appeal is rejected.
The letter says no discount if you appeal and lose. ..
.unquote

but isnt the difference in the words used

'rejected'...is not LOSE....it presumably hasnt invoilved much work as its 'rejected'

LOST means its been considered and work involved...?????????????

I am probably wrong but I would think each is different

Well if you appeal, somebody decides if there are grounds for appeal. If not, the appeal is rejected, and the potential discount remains, but if your appeal is allowed and the appeal court rejects your claim, then no discount. That sounds reasonable to me.

The rule in Aberdeen, mentioned by the OP, is

You must appeal within 28 days of receiving the notice. You should be aware that any representations made outside the 28 day period may be disregarded regardless of whether your appeal is submitted online, by email or by post.

Please note: If you make formal representation then you are accepting that the charge is £60 and that the discounted amount of £30 is not available.

https://www.aberdeencity.gov.uk/service ... rge-notice

I'd say that's unreasonable, but hey...

Scott.

[jfgw]

part quote
50% discount if you pay it as soon as the appeal is rejected.
The letter says no discount if you appeal and lose. ..
.unquote

I have not had any experience of appealing a bus lane penalty, only for parking. I would double-check to make sure you have understood the representation and appeals process correctly.

For parking (council-controlled):
Half price if paid within 14 days.
If you make representations to the issuing authority within 14 days and your representations are rejected, you are still given an opportunity to pay the reduced fine.
If you disagree with this decision, you can appeal to the traffic penalty tribunal. This is an independent body. If you lose, you have to pay the full fine.

In my case, when South Essex Parking Partnership (who handle council-controlled parking for a number of local councils in Essex) rejected my representation, they supplied photographs of the alleged contravention which included evidence that I was loading. I used these in my appeal to the tribunal (plus other supporting evidence). My appeal was not challenged.


Julian F. G. W.

[swill453]

If you make representations to the issuing authority within 14 days and your representations are rejected, you are still given an opportunity to pay the reduced fine.

You can see in the extract I quoted above, if you make any representation for an appeal the discounted fine is no longer available.

Scott.

[chas49]

The OP has made it clear that he loses the discount if he appeals. (This is backed up by information at https://www.aberdeencity.gov.uk/service ... rge-notice)

Further discussion of whether this is right is probably off-topic and is discouraged for that reason

[jfgw]

The OP has made it clear that he loses the discount if he appeals. (This is backed up by information at https://www.aberdeencity.gov.uk/service ... rge-notice)

I see that the OP did state that.

mutantpoodle's quote (which he did not link to) was contradictory.

It seems that not all local authorities are the same:

If you submit your challenge within 21 days we will re-offer the discount if we reject your challenge.

https://www.nottinghamshire.gov.uk/transport/parking/challenge-bus-lane-fine


Julian F. G. W.

[Bminusrob]

I saw this link https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk ... s-25255116 yesterday, and thought it may be of some interest. Basically, a council has fined a man for moving into a bus lane to allow an emergency vehicle with blue lights flashing. It has rejected his appeal, but when the appeal was taken further, the council backed down and rescinded the fine.

It is not quite the same case as the OP, but it may provide precedent for other bus lane fine appeals.

[UncleEbenezer]

I saw this link https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk ... s-25255116 yesterday, and thought it may be of some interest. Basically, a council has fined a man for moving into a bus lane to allow an emergency vehicle with blue lights flashing.

While that sounds like a very good excuse (if it was necessary, or if he genuinely believed that), it seems odd. In a situation with traffic, should every driver escape into the bus lane? Wouldn't it usually make more sense for the emergency vehicle itself to use that space while others keep clear?

I once mounted a (rather high) pavement for a blue-light police car. The alternative then would have been a head-on collision, where the cops were doing at least twice the 30mph speed limit. Happily there were no pedestrians right there, though there were some near enough to shake heads at what happened.

[Bminusrob]

I saw this link https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk ... s-25255116 yesterday, and thought it may be of some interest. Basically, a council has fined a man for moving into a bus lane to allow an emergency vehicle with blue lights flashing.

While that sounds like a very good excuse (if it was necessary, or if he genuinely believed that), it seems odd. In a situation with traffic, should every driver escape into the bus lane? Wouldn't it usually make more sense for the emergency vehicle itself to use that space while others keep clear?

I once mounted a (rather high) pavement for a blue-light police car. The alternative then would have been a head-on collision, where the cops were doing at least twice the 30mph speed limit. Happily there were no pedestrians right there, though there were some near enough to shake heads at what happened.

In the article, it says that emergency vehicles are allowed to use bus lanes. However, in this instance, that would not have helped (as the article goes on) because the ambulance would then have been stuck behind a bus in the bus lane. (I know it is very rare, but you do, very occasionally get a bus in a bus lane.)