Information for estate agents

[melonfool]

Hi

I put in an offer on a house and the EA is telling me they cannot put my offer to the vendor until I have been in person to their offices (impossible) with photo ID to be viewed by one of their "trusted consultants", three months worth of payslips, three months worth of bank statements and a copy of my mortgage offer.

I did put in an offer recently through another agent (vendor decided to withdraw from the market) and they only asked for the mortgage offer.

Pretty sure I've never been for all that before by a vendor EA. I have sent them a scan of my passport and DL, a copy of the mortgage offer and a screen shot of the summary page of my main bank account. But that is all I am prepared to give them and I cannot go into their offices (how would that work if you were buying a place the other end of the country?). I met their agent yesterday at the house and told him I was considering an offer, I had my passport in my handbag but he never mentioned needing to see it, I was halfway home when I got a voicemail from them saying they needed all this and no way was I driving down there again (to have an argument with them about not wanting to provide all this stuff).

But, of course, I don't want to lose the house because of this. I emailed the offer with the docs around 2pm yesterday, they are open til 4pm and I know the vendor was home all day (she was there for the viewing and told me she would be) but they did not reply. When I spoke to them on the phone they just kept saying they weren't sure what to do and would have to ask their manager (I didn't make the offer by phone, despite him asking me THREE times what my offer was, I told him I wanted to go home and think about it, then I did it by email).

Is this normal? Do I have to provide this? I am vaguely wondering if they are asking so they can pass it all on to their mortgage broker which they tried to ram down my throat at every opportunity despite me telling them each time that I have a mortgage offer and don't want to go through another broker (but theirs is the BEST apparently, can get me the BEST offer). If that is what they are doing then it is a breach of the Data Protection Act.

Thanks

Mel

[redsturgeon]

Who knows what might lay behind the actions of estate agents. Clearly there is no "requirement" for all of this information but AFAIK there is a requirement for them to pass on any offer that they receive.

It may be that they have one of their "friends" who is interested in getting this property so it is in their interests to put as many barriers in place as possible as an excuse not to pass on any/all offers.

I had a friend who was a developer and he let me know one evening in the pub when drunk that he had spent £20k that year on estate agents to get first dibs on well priced properties so I know it does go on.

Is there any way you can get a message to the vendors to let them know that you have tried to put in an offer but the agent are being obstructive?

John

[melonfool]

Who knows what might lay behind the actions of estate agents. Clearly there is no "requirement" for all of this information but AFAIK there is a requirement for them to pass on any offer that they receive.

It may be that they have one of their "friends" who is interested in getting this property so it is in their interests to put as many barriers in place as possible as an excuse not to pass on any/all offers.

I had a friend who was a developer and he let me know one evening in the pub when drunk that he had spent £20k that year on estate agents to get first dibs on well priced properties so I know it does go on.

Is there any way you can get a message to the vendors to let them know that you have tried to put in an offer but the agent are being obstructive?

John

Well, I know their address, so I could write to them? I guess call the agents tomorrow and check what they have done. It's interesting actually, she said she'd had four viewings and at least two had been very keen but she'd not received any offers. It's not a development opportunity though, there's nothing very special about it.

Mel

[redsturgeon]

Well, I know their address, so I could write to them? I guess call the agents tomorrow and check what they have done. It's interesting actually, she said she'd had four viewings and at least two had been very keen but she'd not received any offers. It's not a development opportunity though, there's nothing very special about it.

Mel

Hmmm...my personal "smell-a-ratometer" is bleeping red at the moment. I think a call tomorrow is essential and a commitment from them to pass your offer( which I am assuming is a serious one and not a silly lowball bid) to the vendors within 24 hours.

As I said, who knows what games are being played...it could be that it is the perfect home for the agent's daughter, friend etc.

John

[melonfool]

The house is on for £250k, I made an offer of £242k. The agent told me an offer of £240k would be fine and that they are "desperate to sell". But this agent is new, he only started there on Wednesday, I called them Friday and it was like talking to the work experience boy. Every time I ask a question he has to refer to someone else and it was someone else who called and left the vm, who I then spoke to and who sent the email asking for all this documentation.

I think I'll call in the morning and speak to the manager who they keep telling me they have to refer to for everything anyway.

I'd quite like this house. I'd like to know what offer they would accept and am happy to go up to full asking price, I just put in a lower offer to get a reply really.

Mel

[RedSnapper]

Sounds very strange to me. What on earth could they possibly need 3 months bank statements & payslips for? It's not them to second guess the mortgage lender. Personally I would be very uncomfortable supplying such personal information. Enough to allow them to be comfortable about your ID and the fact that you have a bona fide mortgage offer, sure, that's reasonable, but more than that is overstepping the mark.

According to .gov.uk (http://www.gov.uk/buy-sell-your-home/estate-agents):

Estate agents must also treat buyers fairly. They must show any offers promptly and in writing to the person selling the house.

Estate agents are also legally obliged to pass on any other offers for the property right up to when contracts are exchanged.

[richlist]

If the estate agents are members of NAEA or similar then contact these professional organisations and report them for this unnecessary behaviour.

[Mike88]

I would be inclined to telephone or even visit the house owner to explain how the estate agent is attempting to disrupt the sale.

[melonfool]

They don't have anything about any memberships on their website though they do have the logo for the ombudsman.

I don't have the vendor's phone number, or name, just the address. She did tell me her name when I arrived but I didn't catch it. I don't think the agent was expecting her to be in.

They say they are part of Countrywide, which they say is the biggest EA group in the country. They don't have anything on their website about memberships either.

I think, for now, I'll put this down to Saturday/new staff being idiots and see what happens tomorrow.

Thank you

Mel

[modellingman]

This recent trade article does indicate that there has been some recent focus on estate agents and the anti-money laundering regulations, so that might explain the agency's insistence on seeing the id in person.

I agree with others that the payslips, bank statements, etc are over intrusive - in terms of qualifying your offer to the buyer, an offer of mortgage ought to be more than sufficient for the agent.

In your position, there is one thing I would possibly raise with the manager when I spoke to him: the physical issue caused by the fact that you are obviously not living or working in the same location as the branch that is dealing with the sale - therefore, given that you are dealing with a national chain, would it be possible to have your identity checked at a branch that was conveniently located for where you lived/worked.

If you don't get any sympathy or joy from the manager in terms of an assurance that your offer will be passed on as soon as practicable, I would probably take the step, as others have suggested, that you also make the vendor aware of your offer (and the fact it is backed with a mortgage offer). In contacting them, I would make clear the reasons why I was contacting them (tried to do it through the agents, not convinced by their response, want to make sure seller does know an offer has been made, very keen on purchasing, etc, etc). Although approaching the vendor is unusual, I can't see that if handled correctly it will put you in any worse position than leaving yourself entirely reliant on the agent.

[chas49]

AML requirements was my first thought too. Googling (https://www.google.co.uk/#newwindow=1&q ... ouse+buyer) brings a load of relevant articles such as https://www.bovill.com/hmrc-clarify-aml ... cy-sector/

The question really is what level of risk they have assessed for this transaction, and therefore what level of due diligence they need to undertake. From the linked article, it seems that they cannot proceed with the transaction if they cannot do the CDD properly.

Bear in mind that your solicitor will also have to do (or may already have done) the same checks!

[melonfool]

The estate agent doesn't deal with any money from me though. My solicitor has in fact seen all (well, only two payslips and one bank statement, but they have met me and have a copy of my ID) this detail, so they could simply contact them.

Their agent met me and I have sent my passport and photo DL copy, so I'm not sure what else they could need for ID purposes. Needing me in the same place as my physical passport seems overkill right now.

Annoyingly, the mortgage offer does not cover anything like the value of the property as the vast majority is coming in cash from my ex - I have no way of evidencing that (other than a long chain of variously curt and acrimonious emails which there is no point sending them) though they could speak to my solicitor who can speak to his. Or I could ask him for a copy of his mortgage offer, though how they will decide that is 'proof' of anything I have no idea, we don't share a surname or anything. Though I guess they can check the land registry for our names at this current address. And some is coming from my own savings - how do they manage this when there is no mortgage required at all?

The previous agent only asked for the mortgage offer.

But very good idea about asking if I can be ID'd at another branch, though there won't be any where I work, there may be one affiliated to their parent co.

The more they ask for though, the more they should have a Data Protection statement on their website!

Thanks all - at least I'm not entirely out of touch by thinking this is a bit odd.

Mel

[UncleEbenezer]

Does the agent know you already have a solicitor? A solicitor's word counts as evidence for most things someone might ask of you in a legal capacity.

Come to that, what does your solicitor think about it? Or were you just posting here to avoid "you're quite right, that'll be £250 please"?

[melonfool]

Does the agent know you already have a solicitor? A solicitor's word counts as evidence for most things someone might ask of you in a legal capacity.

Come to that, what does your solicitor think about it? Or were you just posting here to avoid "you're quite right, that'll be £250 please"?

I haven't been asked about a solicitor but I will tell them tomorrow. Because I am splitting from my partner I needed one anyway to do the transfer agreement and land registry stuff. I suppose it's not usual to have one until after an offer is accepted.

No, I haven't asked the solicitor because this only happened yesterday and the solicitor isn't open Saturdays. Plus, so far I have told her there is nothing for her to do until ex [pulls his finger out and] has got a bit further with the mortgage so is ready to do the transfer. Once that is underway she will hand me over to their property team for my purchase, so in fact it will be that one who deals with the EA in the end - though my current one (who is a family lawyer) is the one who has seen all the ID etc.

Mel

[Clitheroekid]

There must be more time and effort wasted in attempting to comply with the AML legislation than almost any other branch of professional work.

As has been pointed out, not only do you have to go through this rigmarole with the estate agents, you will also have to repeat the stupid process with the mortgage company and your solicitor, as well.

The absurd amount of duplication and general hassle it causes is massively out of proportion to any actual benefit conferred on society as a whole.

99.999% of people buying houses are just perfectly ordinary people, not criminals. And if criminals want to buy houses they can all too easily provide fake documentation that's indistinguishable from the real thing except to a forensic expert. I have been personally shown fake passports, driving licences and so on that are perfect replicas.

And they are readily available - this site picked at random will supply a fake UK passport for €650 -

Moderator Message:
link removed to avoid inadvertent promotion. To retain the point being made, here's a link to a relevant Google search: https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=fake+ ... e&ie=UTF-8 (chas49)

(Incidentally, I can't understand why money transfer services that are used by these sites aren't sanctioned. This site will accept payment by Western Union and MoneyGram, both of which are US companies. So why doesn't the US Government sanction them, for example by fining them $10 for every dollar sent to companies like this?)

I've also frequently had situations where a foreign national is buying property and they present me with their (foreign) passport as evidence of their ID. But how the hell am I supposed to know what a genuine Chinese or Brazilian passport looks like?

The whole situation is a total farce. It causes massive inconvenience to huge numbers of people whilst making very little impact on actual criminals.

I've often said that there should be some way of establishing one’s identity officially on a once and for all basis - a voluntary identity card, in effect. It could be run by the Government but on a self-funded basis, so that the charges for the service would pay for it. Once you had been registered all you would need to produce when faced with an AML query would be your ID card, it could be checked against the central register and that would be it.

I would be more than happy to sign up and pay for such a process if it meant I could avoid all this nonsense in future.

[melonfool]

The ID bit I am fine with, it makes sense. Just slightly annoyed that I met their agent, told him outside the house that I was likely to make an offer and he didn't mention it, but I had my passport with me, he could have taken a photo of it! I have sent a copy - but they have said I need to go into the office with it so it can be seen by a "trusted consultant", whatever that is as opposed to the guy I met (funny how they are happy for an unaccompanied female to meet an untrusted consultant then?).

It's the payslips and bank statements that is a step too far.

I've already done it for the solicitor and the mortgage broker, though I expect I'll have to do it again for the actual mortgage provider.

We'll see what they say tomorrow.

I too would be happy with an ID card of some sort with an online check or something. But people protested against it when it was being suggested so the idea was dropped.

Mel

[staffordian]

Mel, I don't suppose part of the requirement for you to go to their office and see their senior consultant is to give them the opportunity to try to flog you an alternative mortgage or something similar?

Or am I being too cynical?

Staffordian

[melonfool]

Mel, I don't suppose part of the requirement for you to go to their office and see their senior consultant is to give them the opportunity to try to flog you an alternative mortgage or something similar?

Or am I being too cynical?

Staffordian

Yes, as I think I said in one of my posts, this is *exactly* what I think they are doing. And I think they want all my financial details so they can decide if I am worth bothering their mortgage advisor with. They tried to ram the mortgage advisor down my throat every time I spoke to them even after I clearly told them I didn't want to speak to him, they went so far as to tell me his name like he's some kind of mortgage celebrity and I should have heard of him!

I told off another agent who asked if I wanted to speak to their mortgage advisor, after I said no, I didn't, the mortgage advisor called me. I explained to the EA in no uncertain terms that this was a breach of the Data Protection Act as I gave my name and phone number in relation to buying a property and was clear I did not want a mortgage with them so for them to pass on my details is an unauthorised use of my data.

They are all getting right up my nose I can tell you - the sooner I have moved, the better!

Mel

[NilDesper]

When I owned rental properties, it was illegal for an estate agent NOT to pass on any offer that they received. I would be surprised if this has changed in the intevening 10 years.

ND

[Mike88]

When I owned rental properties, it was illegal for an estate agent NOT to pass on any offer that they received. I would be surprised if this has changed in the intevening 10 years.

ND

But the estate agent could easily say the person making the offer was unable/unwilling to meet the statutory requirements or they remain to be convinced with documentary evidence that the purchaser was in a financial position to proceed (no evidence yet of former partner's cash injection ). If in the estate agent's opinion the purchaser is not in a position to proceed an offer will not be forwarded to the vendor.

Indeed in my area an estate agent won't even show a potential purchaser a property if the purchaser had not sold their property subject to contract or was in a position to proceed immediately.