The Lemon Fool

A friend of a friend (so you will gather my knowledge of the true facts is a bit sketchy), is German, married to an Englishman, and resident in England for c.23 years. She works in London through various agencies. I am told that some agencies are refusing to refer her or give her work because of the uncertain position of European nationals since Brexit. I would have thought that this was clearly discrimination, as of now, the law and her status has not changed at all. Any views (please restrict discussion to the legal position).

There is a duty on employers to only give employment to people who are legally resident in this country, they are committing an offence it they do not comply . Some EU citizen's positions regarding their legal status as UK residents has been called into question since Brexit. So in fact I see it as complying with the law rather than the reverse.

John

redsturgeon wrote:There is a duty on employers to only give employment to people who are legally resident in this country, they are committing an offence it they do not comply . Some EU citizen's positions regarding their legal status as UK residents has been called into question since Brexit. So in fact I see it as complying with the law rather than the reverse.

John

Got to disagree with that.

There is no question over EU citizen's positions regarding their legal status as UK residents at this time and probably won't be until 2 years after the PM pulls the switch.

My government clients have EU nationals on their staff and there has been no sign of any changes in that situation as of now.

Slarti

Slarti wrote:

redsturgeon wrote:There is a duty on employers to only give employment to people who are legally resident in this country, they are committing an offence it they do not comply . Some EU citizen's positions regarding their legal status as UK residents has been called into question since Brexit. So in fact I see it as complying with the law rather than the reverse.

John

Got to disagree with that.

There is no question over EU citizen's positions regarding their legal status as UK residents at this time and probably won't be until 2 years after the PM pulls the switch.

My government clients have EU nationals on their staff and there has been no sign of any changes in that situation as of now.

Slarti

Could they discriminate on the grounds that in 2 years time, her status may be changed?

I am not sure how she could prove discrimination if this agency (a middleman I assume) is telling her 'off the record' that this is the reason companies don't want to employ her.

Nimrod103 wrote:

Slarti wrote:

redsturgeon wrote:There is a duty on employers to only give employment to people who are legally resident in this country, they are committing an offence it they do not comply . Some EU citizen's positions regarding their legal status as UK residents has been called into question since Brexit. So in fact I see it as complying with the law rather than the reverse.

John

Got to disagree with that.

There is no question over EU citizen's positions regarding their legal status as UK residents at this time and probably won't be until 2 years after the PM pulls the switch.

My government clients have EU nationals on their staff and there has been no sign of any changes in that situation as of now.

Slarti

Could they discriminate on the grounds that in 2 years time, her status may be changed?

I am not sure how she could prove discrimination if this agency (a middleman I assume) is telling her 'off the record' that this is the reason companies don't want to employ her.

I wouldn't have thought so as it may not have changed.

In fact I suspect that it won't have there being 3 scenarios bandied about 1) send them all home 2) those who are here can stay,but limit newcomers 3) carry on as previously. I suspect that it will be some variant of 2 that will prevail, but until it is thrashed out, discrimination would, in my opinion, be illegal.

Slarti

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... r-24-years

This is the sort of thing a based my post on.

John

redsturgeon wrote:https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/dec/28/dutch-woman-with-two-british-children-told-to-leave-uk-after-24-years

This is the sort of thing a based my post on.

John

Interesting cases, though I'm not sure how relevant they are to my question.
The Dutch women has fallen foul of the requirement to submit original ID (viz her Dutch passport), she submitted a lawyers (presumably notarized) photocopy instead, which was not deemed acceptable. Then she received a presumably standard rejection letter, putting her in the same category as somebody from outside the EU su8ggesting she should leave.
I would imagine the problem is that the Home Office is so inundated with applications from all over, that they cannot use their brains to work out that somebody from the well-regulated EU is probably more trustworthy than somebody from the Indian sub-continent, and that they cannot obtain a second passport to enable them to travel about their normal affairs, while the other passport is being processed.

Nimrod103 wrote:Could they discriminate on the grounds that in 2 years time, her status may be changed?

what about on the basis that in 10 years time she may be dead? So they wanty to employ somebody younger who may not die for 20 years?

didds

Nimrod103 wrote:A friend of a friend (so you will gather my knowledge of the true facts is a bit sketchy), is German, married to an Englishman, and resident in England for c.23 years. She works in London through various agencies. I am told that some agencies are refusing to refer her or give her work because of the uncertain position of European nationals since Brexit. I would have thought that this was clearly discrimination, as of now, the law and her status has not changed at all. Any views (please restrict discussion to the legal position).

IMO it is discrimination, but not illegal discrimination, since AFAIAA there is no law against discriminating on the basis of nationality (as opposed to race). It's pretty ridiculous though.

dionaeamuscipula wrote:IMO it is discrimination, but not illegal discrimination, since AFAIAA there is no law against discriminating on the basis of nationality (as opposed to race). It's pretty ridiculous though.

The definition of race used in the Equality Act includes colour, nationality and ethnic or national origins, so it would be illegal discrimination IMO.

masped wrote:

dionaeamuscipula wrote:IMO it is discrimination, but not illegal discrimination, since AFAIAA there is no law against discriminating on the basis of nationality (as opposed to race). It's pretty ridiculous though.

The definition of race used in the Equality Act includes colour, nationality and ethnic or national origins, so it would be illegal discrimination IMO.

You are correct, apologies.

Good page here:

https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/discr ... t-is-race-

dionaeamuscipula wrote:

Nimrod103 wrote:A friend of a friend (so you will gather my knowledge of the true facts is a bit sketchy), is German, married to an Englishman, and resident in England for c.23 years. She works in London through various agencies. I am told that some agencies are refusing to refer her or give her work because of the uncertain position of European nationals since Brexit. I would have thought that this was clearly discrimination, as of now, the law and her status has not changed at all. Any views (please restrict discussion to the legal position).

IMO it is discrimination, but not illegal discrimination, since AFAIAA there is no law against discriminating on the basis of nationality (as opposed to race). It's pretty ridiculous though.

Race includes nationality in the Equality Act 2010:

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2010/15/section/9

"Race

(1)Race includes—

(a)colour;

(b)nationality;

(c)ethnic or national origins."

Mel

Sorry, should have read the next posts!

But anyway, to deny employment to an EU citizen due to their nationality would be unlawful discrimination as they have the right to work in the UK. The fact that may change in future is irrelevant.

Mel