Party Wall Agreement

[JessUK98]

I have a new neighbour that has just come around to apologise about some up and coming building work to the house next door to mine (corner terrace). Apparently there will be a skip outside my house for about 2 months (there is nowhere outside her house as hers is on a small side road). That bit doesn't overly bother me other than I'm probably going to have to deal with additional people now blocking and partially obstructing my drive. I didn't think at the time to ask, but she mentioned that they will be knocking out the fireplace so there'd be a lot of noise. This fireplace is on the wall which adjoins my property. Would she need a party wall agreement in order to do this? My concern is that by knocking out the fireplace (presumably to put in a multi-fuel stove) she will be reducing the wall thickness and therefore I will hear more noise day to day from there. Also if it isn't properly lagged I might get water/damp coming in from their chimney etc.
Any advice gratefully received.

[redsturgeon]

Would she need a party wall agreement in order to do this?

Simple answer...yes.

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/party-wall- ... 6-guidance

John

[JessUK98]

Will they need a party wall surveyor? Or just "serve" me with notice via the party wall act? I'm happy for them to go ahead with the works providing it doesn't have a detrimental affect on the noise levels.

[PinkDalek]

Will they need a party wall surveyor? Or just "serve" me with notice via the party wall act? I'm happy for them to go ahead with the works providing it doesn't have a detrimental affect on the noise levels.

I'm no expert but if, as you say earlier, "she will be reducing the wall thickness" is there no chance this might compromise the strength of the Party Wall? If so, I'd encourage the neighbour to submit a Party Wall notice to protect her as much as you.

The Explanatory "Booklet" https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/s ... ooklet.pdf includes:

"Where the intended work is to an existing party wall (section 2 of the Act) a notice must be given even where the work will not extend beyond the centre line of a party wall" and later "The Act contains no enforcement procedures for failure to serve a notice. However, if you start work without having first given notice in the proper way, Adjoining Owners may seek to stop your work through a court injunction or seek other legal redress."

If you look at the Example letters starting at page 34 you'll see whether or not the appointment of an Agreed Surveyor (can be appointed jointly but your neighbour to bear the costs) will be relevant or not. This would apply if you give a "Negative Acknowledgement of Party Structure Notice" such as per "Example letter 3".

Also, page 32 includes:

"13 Agreed Surveyor's name - It is recommended that you give the name, address and
telephone number of the person you propose to use as the 'agreed surveyor'. However,
there is no requirement to appoint surveyor(s) unless a dispute arises. If an agreed
surveyor’s details are not provided the relevant sentence(s) may be deleted or you may
wish to replace with ‘details of agreed surveyor to be advised if a dispute arises’."

Hopefully others will comment further, particularly with regards to your worries concerning the noise after the works have been undertaken.

[Clitheroekid]

Will they need a party wall surveyor? Or just "serve" me with notice via the party wall act? I'm happy for them to go ahead with the works providing it doesn't have a detrimental affect on the noise levels.

The legislation is there for your protection, but rather unfairly the onus is on you to enforce it, as there is no automatic sanction if they fail to comply.

It's therefore essential that you do insist not only on them serving you with the PWA notice, but on them undertaking no further work until a PWA agreement has been entered into.

The law says that you should be served with the notice at least 2 months before the work starts, so as to give you a proper opportunity to ensure it's done properly. Once you've received the notice you have the right to appoint a party wall surveyor, and you should certainly consider doing so in a case like this, as unless you're in the building trade it's unlikely that you would have the necessary technical knowledge to understand the implications of the work being proposed.

Although the surveyor will decide who pays his fees it's nearly always the party serving the notice who has to pay.

However, you may be able to avoid the formalities of this if you say to your neighbour that although you want advice from a building surveyor you are quite happy to obtain this informally provided the neighbour agrees to pay for it. It's in their interests to do so, and the surveyor can then recommend work that needs to be done so as to prevent any harm to you resulting from the work.

If the neighbour refuses to co-operate and/or simply ignores you and starts doing the building work you're entitled to apply to the court for an injunction to stop him, and this will be granted more or less automatically. The court would also normally order him to pay your legal costs. However, in practice a letter threatening an injunction may well be enough to stop him and persuade him to co-operate.

I realise that nobody wants to get into confrontation with their neighbour, but the law is there for a reason. Work of the type contemplated can cause serious problems if it's not done professionally, so it's worth risking a slightly frosty relationship if it saves your property.

[dspp]

Her section of the fireplace may well be part of the structural support for the chimney that you jointly share. If I were you I would stick closely to the legalities of the PWA, and make sure your own surveyor is appointed and paid for by her. Be careful with this one.

For example in my street a house decided to 'do' an attic conversion, served a PWA and were about to get started. The neighbour looked at the plans, got a surveyor, and said "You've made a mistake - the party wall you are about to put beams into is not load bearing. Change your design". They were absolutely correct.

I suggest you don't assume, get this checked. And not at your cost.

regards, dspp

[JessUK98]

Thanks for all your replies. House currently empty so I have popped a note through the door before I left for work politely requesting a party wall agreement and giving a link to the guidance notes. Hopefully she will pop round and discuss and won't turn into another neighbour from hell.

EDIT - I don't know if this will make any difference but my chimney is located on a separate wall (not a party wall). It's a corner terrace so she's joined onto the back of my house rather than the side. So the chimney will be completely hers.

[redsturgeon]

EDIT - I don't know if this will make any difference but my chimney is located on a separate wall (not a party wall). It's a corner terrace so she's joined onto the back of my house rather than the side. So the chimney will be completely hers.

Precisely the reason you need a surveyor.

John

[brightncheerful]

Since the neighbour's comments are casual, the op cannot know for certain whether knocking out the fireplace should be construed literally, or merely, for example, remodelling it. Rather than jump to conclusions and insist upon a party wall notice, which would only have to be given and the procedure followed if the party wall were affected, I'd have thought it would make more sense, at least in the context of maintaining neighbourly harmony, to ask the neighbour to tell you exactly what work is going to be done so that you can both check whether a party wall agreement would be needed.

As for the skip outside your property, unless on your land, that's a public highway issue. You should check with the local council that any highway issues have been agreed.

Dust, etc from neighbouring building works is a nuisance but whether you should be accommodating and for how long depends upon what steps the neighbour takes to minimise inconvenience. Also, whether the neighbour's builders will need your permission to go onto any part of your property, garden. When my neighbour had a new window put in to the side wall of her kitchen, she didn't tell me, fair enough, but her builders assumed I wouldn't mind them putting a ladder on my driveway which is why they didn't ask. First I heard of it was being told by the builder who at the time was standing on my driveway and positioning a ladder against next door's wall I should move my car off my driveway to avoid it being covered with brick dust. When I asked who gave the builder permission to use my driveway, he didn't anything and when neighbour asked I refused. In the event, I insisted they put a tarpaulin on the tarmac to minimise the dust and to hose down the driveway using the neighbour's water supply after they'd finished.

[JessUK98]

OK, back to resurrect this thread if I may. The neighbour's builder came round to see me and said they were only taking the fire surround out, and not taking away any of the chimney breast, so I didn't press them for a party wall agreement. Now, however, I feel that this was stupid off me to trust them on this. As of this evening, all I can hear in my living room is a noise like a hoover being left on and for about two hours had a constant scraping noise on the wall (a bit like the sound made when taking wallpaper off with a scraper). Sometimes the noise reminds me a bit of my immersion heater when it is heating the water up. Now it has reverted to just sounding like somebody has left a hoover on. I went round to see them and no one was there so I peered through their living room window and I couldn't see anything in particular (the room was full of moving in boxes etc so I think they are in the process of moving in properly) but they've done more than just remove the fire surround. It looks like they've knocked out an alcove. I think they must have a boiler or something linked to the stove, and the 2 hours of scraping was when the water was heating up maybe. If they've put a back boiler in against a party wall and I've not insisted on a party wall agreement what come back do I have? I don't think I can stand constantly having to listen to the dratted thing, lord knows what noise it will make when they are actually drawing water.
I'll try and catch them tomorrow after work if they are about but I'd like to have an idea of what I can expect them to do about it, or whether it is something I need to get council/environmental health etc involved in etc. Not the way I wanted to start of relations with a new neighbour that's for sure.

[Lootman]

Her section of the fireplace may well be part of the structural support for the chimney that you jointly share. If I were you I would stick closely to the legalities of the PWA, and make sure your own surveyor is appointed and paid for by her. Be careful with this one.

In some cases you need more than a surveyor. You need a structural engineer. And although the common practice is for the other party to pay for you to use a surveyor, that's not necessarily the case for a structural engineer.

So when my neighbour was planning some serious structural work at and up to our shared lot line, I had a number of expenses, including a photographic map of my interior - basically a "before" image showing the state of the walls. In the event of problems there could then be an "after" image showing the change.

Also the surveyor measured all the external points of my structure from a couple of nearby hills so that if there was any movement in my structure, it could be measured and proven.

Finally there was a contract drawn up which included factors like access to my property (essential for some of the work) and an indemnity agreement for any and all costs and problems arising.

And in the end, to make all this happen, the neighbour paid for it all. About £17,000 which also included the cost of repainting some of my exterior and some repairs to my external steps when they bored under them for foundation work. And with everything cut and dried in that way, our relationship remained good.

[dspp]

Like I said : be careful with this one.

regards, dspp