Waste pipes legality for freehold flats

[Dicky99]

Yes, it is. They need to make their minds up: is the problem in your pipe or is it a communal pipe?.

The fact that the sink overflowed when the flat was empty is irrefutable evidence that the pipe is shared.
That established it comes down to what the lease says on responsibility for the communal drains.

[mc2fool]

Yes, it is. They need to make their minds up: is the problem in your pipe or is it a communal pipe?.

The fact that the sink overflowed when the flat was empty is irrefutable evidence that the pipe is shared.
That established it comes down to what the lease says on responsibility for the communal drains.

You miss my point....

[Dicky99]

The fact that the sink overflowed when the flat was empty is irrefutable evidence that the pipe is shared.
That established it comes down to what the lease says on responsibility for the communal drains.

You miss my point....

I don't think so. It seems they've made up their minds that it's the OP's issue and require this clarification.

[mc2fool]

You miss my point....

I don't think so. It seems they've made up their minds that it's the OP's issue and require this clarification.

And one way of clarifying it to them would be for the OP to tell them that if they think it's the OP's pipe and not a communal one, then the OP can fix the issue as they think fit, including stopping other flats waste going into it in the first place.

Note, I'm not suggesting the OP actually does the latter, just presents it as a point to help their understanding -- although I am curious as to where the water would go if the pipe was disconnected at the bottom of the white section and it flowed into the gully below the balcony ...

[Crazbe7]

I don't think so. It seems they've made up their minds that it's the OP's issue and require this clarification.

And one way of clarifying it to them would be for the OP to tell them that if they think it's the OP's pipe and not a communal one, then the OP can fix the issue as they think fit, including stopping other flats waste going into it in the first place.

Note, I'm not suggesting the OP actually does the latter, just presents it as a point to help their understanding -- although I am curious as to where the water would go if the pipe was disconnected at the bottom of the white section and it flowed into the gully below the balcony ...

It is clearly a joint down pipe from the photographs. The upstairs flat has two routes into the down pipe. One direct connection, the other using the OPs connection.

[mc2fool]

And one way of clarifying it to them would be for the OP to tell them that if they think it's the OP's pipe and not a communal one, then the OP can fix the issue as they think fit, including stopping other flats waste going into it in the first place.

Note, I'm not suggesting the OP actually does the latter, just presents it as a point to help their understanding -- although I am curious as to where the water would go if the pipe was disconnected at the bottom of the white section and it flowed into the gully below the balcony ...

It is clearly a joint down pipe from the photographs. The upstairs flat has two routes into the down pipe. One direct connection, the other using the OPs connection.

Another person missing my point ... but I don't see any "direct" route: as the OP says "The waste pipes from upstairs all route into my flat". That's just below the white section that I'm wondering what would happen if it were disconnected....

[Crazbe7]

It is clearly a joint down pipe from the photographs. The upstairs flat has two routes into the down pipe. One direct connection, the other using the OPs connection.

Another person missing my point ... but I don't see any "direct" route: as the OP says "The waste pipes from upstairs all route into my flat". That's just below the white section that I'm wondering what would happen if it were disconnected....

Look at the photographs the OP has provided. The OP has not accurately described the layout of the pipework from the flat above. My description is accurate.

[mc2fool]

Another person missing my point ... but I don't see any "direct" route: as the OP says "The waste pipes from upstairs all route into my flat". That's just below the white section that I'm wondering what would happen if it were disconnected....

Look at the photographs the OP has provided. The OP has not accurately described the layout of the pipework from the flat above. My description is accurate.

I have. This is the relevant bit. In particular the last photo which shows the downpipe going into the OP's flat, at which point it (apparently) joins their internal waste pipework and runs horizontally through to the other side of the building and out.

Personally I'd say that internal part is the OP's pipework being misused as a communal pipe.

[Patty313]

Look at the photographs the OP has provided. The OP has not accurately described the layout of the pipework from the flat above. My description is accurate.

I have. This is the relevant bit. In particular the last photo which shows the downpipe going into the OP's flat, at which point it (apparently) joins their internal waste pipework and runs horizontally through to the other side of the building and out.

Personally I'd say that internal part is the OP's pipework being misused as a communal pipe.

thanks mc2fool. Sorry for my delayed response. I still haven't heard back from my neighbours. I'm now considering a cctv survey to be done to confirm that the downpipe is going into my flat. Sorry I have a stupid question, what's an "OP"?

[mc2fool]

thanks mc2fool. Sorry for my delayed response. I still haven't heard back from my neighbours. I'm now considering a cctv survey to be done to confirm that the downpipe is going into my flat. Sorry I have a stupid question, what's an "OP"?

Original Poster: the person who posted the first post in the thread (you in this case), or sometimes Original Post: the first post in a thread (or sometimes sub-thread).

I thought that was well and truly confirmed already?!?

I'm not sure you should be waiting for anything. I think you are in danger of letting an open opportunity pass you by, being to try and make sure that the buyer of the upstairs flat knows there is a problem. I'm not actually sure how you can reliably go about that, I'd like to think that if you approached the seller's estate agents they would be required to pass that info on to the buyer, but I'm not sure. Probably best would be just to ask your solicitor what the right way would be (at risk, of course, of them saying: through us, at £180/hr).

[Patty313]

thanks mc2fool. Sorry for my delayed response. I still haven't heard back from my neighbours. I'm now considering a cctv survey to be done to confirm that the downpipe is going into my flat. Sorry I have a stupid question, what's an "OP"?

Original Poster: the person who posted the first post in the thread (you in this case), or sometimes Original Post: the first post in a thread (or sometimes sub-thread).

I thought that was well and truly confirmed already?!?

I'm not sure you should be waiting for anything. I think you are in danger of letting an open opportunity pass you by, being to try and make sure that the buyer of the upstairs flat knows there is a problem. I'm not actually sure how you can reliably go about that, I'd like to think that if you approached the seller's estate agents they would be required to pass that info on to the buyer, but I'm not sure. Probably best would be just to ask your solicitor what the right way would be (at risk, of course, of them saying: through us, at £180/hr).

Hi mc2fool - I haven't had a chance to borrow your sentence, "Personally I'd say that internal part is the OP's pipework being misused as a communal pipe."
I emailed the neighbour asking them to provide me downstairs' building extension plan, which should show whether the original waste pipe was modified and redirected to my flat. My suggestion was that perhaps the plan can give us enough informatio to save the need for a CCTV survey and the associated costs. No one responded yet.

The seller didn't give us any information about her real estate agent. I'd like to think that they'd require my signature too, as when I purchased this flat 2 years ago, the seller needed their signature. It took them 3 months to collect the signatures then, which made me almost missed my mortgage by 1 day! The stress that I had to deal with them since before I moved in. But no one has contacted me yet. I'll keep you all posted. Thanks again as always.

p.s. thanks for explaining to me OP. =)

[mc2fool]

The seller didn't give us any information about her real estate agent.

There isn't an estate agent's board outside?

I'd like to think that they'd require my signature too, as when I purchased this flat 2 years ago, the seller needed their signature.

Doubtful. What would be needed is the signature of the landlord ("license to assign") but that's the freehold & management company, so that will (should) be provided by the other director.

[Patty313]

The seller didn't give us any information about her real estate agent.

There isn't an estate agent's board outside?

I'd like to think that they'd require my signature too, as when I purchased this flat 2 years ago, the seller needed their signature.

Doubtful. What would be needed is the signature of the landlord ("license to assign") but that's the freehold & management company, so that will (should) be provided by the other director.

>>There isn't an estate agent's board outside?
No. and I'm searching online and can't find anything so far

>>Doubtful. What would be needed is the signature of the landlord ("license to assign") but that's the freehold & management company, so that will (should) be provided by the other director.[/quote]

I've only become a director as of last Friday after I requested them to do so.

[mc2fool]

>>There isn't an estate agent's board outside?
No. and I'm searching online and can't find anything so far

>>Doubtful. What would be needed is the signature of the landlord ("license to assign") but that's the freehold & management company, so that will (should) be provided by the other director.

I've only become a director as of last Friday after I requested them to do so.

Try sticking your postcode into https://www.rightmove.co.uk/, https://www.zoopla.co.uk/ and https://www.onthemarket.com/.

Now being a director gives you some clout. You can now ask who the seller's estate agent and the solicitors are, and ask to see the LPE1 the company provided to the solicitors for the flat, and let the solicitors know if there's anything not right about it. Of course, you can ask but they may continue to just ignore you, in which case you'd need to get your solicitors involved.

[Patty313]

>>There isn't an estate agent's board outside?
No. and I'm searching online and can't find anything so far

>>Doubtful. What would be needed is the signature of the landlord ("license to assign") but that's the freehold & management company, so that will (should) be provided by the other director.

I've only become a director as of last Friday after I requested them to do so.

Try sticking your postcode into https://www.rightmove.co.uk/, https://www.zoopla.co.uk/ and https://www.onthemarket.com/.

Now being a director gives you some clout. You can now ask who the seller's estate agent and the solicitors are, and ask to see the LPE1 the company provided to the solicitors for the flat, and let the solicitors know if there's anything not right about it. Of course, you can ask but they may continue to just ignore you, in which case you'd need to get your solicitors involved.

Thanks so much. I still can't find it.
I've made some progress. As advised, I've hired professional to get a cctv survey done. Below are the key observations:

the waste pipes from upstairs indeed enter into my flat. Compared with the original drawing found on the council website, the pipes looked to have been altered. (I've requested the Studio downstairs to provide me their renovation plan a week ago, still haven't heard back). The drawing of the website shown on the council website suggests the waste pipes started from the top floor and ended on the ground floor.

When the camera entered from the waste pipe outside, it submerged into the said pool of water straight away. There's a backfall of dirty water, which suggests the pipework was poorly done according to the plumber.

The pipe from my flat is clear until where it joins the communal pipes 0.53 meter, we could see clear water. At 1.05m, we started to see yellow debris in the water (grease?) It's around 2.73 meters from my wardrobe to the 'merging point' of the communal pipes. So the dirty water that backflows into my wardrobe is pretty polluted

Now if I manage to convince the neighbour to divert their pipe, after flush-cleaning the backlog of water, I'm nervous that it will still produce a backfall of still water, which means I'll have to lift my floor to redo the pipe work. What are your thoughts?

I've uploaded all the videos here for your reference if you have a chance / don't mind to review.
1. from kitchen to the end of bedroom where the pipe is accessible inside the closet:
https://pattyj.smugmug.com/Waste-pipes- ... -TBTvqFP/A

2. from the end of the bedroom inside the closet to meet the 'communal pipeline"
https://pattyj.smugmug.com/Waste-pipes- ... -fVNzD69/A

3. from outside into my flat
https://pattyj.smugmug.com/Waste-pipes- ... -hsQLJcf/A

4. another video from outside into my flat, with less reflection on the screen
https://pattyj.smugmug.com/Waste-pipes- ... -NBddLhT/A


Thanks so much as always.

[mc2fool]

What are your thoughts?

You need to get your solicitor involved, ASAP.

[ReformedCharacter]

I've uploaded all the videos here for your reference if you have a chance / don't mind to review.

Hi, I can't view the videos, I get asked for a password. The 'hint' doesn't help me sufficiently

RC

[Patty313]

I've uploaded all the videos here for your reference if you have a chance / don't mind to review.

Hi, I can't view the videos, I get asked for a password. The 'hint' doesn't help me sufficiently

RC

No way. I uploaded the videos under the same folder as the images. I will check and repost as soon as I get home from the office. Sorry about any inconveniences.

Ps I wonder what the hint is as I doubt I know the pwd myself.

[Patty313]

What are your thoughts?

You need to get your solicitor involved, ASAP.

Thanks mc2fool. What can my solicitor do except that I will end up owing a more legal fee, which I can’t really afford? I don’t wish to do thing just for my ego although I do feel being bullied.

[Patty313]

Hi, I can't view the videos, I get asked for a password. The 'hint' doesn't help me sufficiently

Hello, I reposted the videos. Sorry for any inconvenience caused.

Questions that I have - Now if I manage to convince the neighbour to divert their pipe, after flush-cleaning the backlog of water, I'm nervous that it will still produce a backfall of still water, which means I'll have to lift my floor to redo the pipe work. What are your thoughts?

I've uploaded all the videos here for your reference if you have a chance / don't mind to review.
1. from kitchen to the end of bedroom where the pipe is accessible inside the closet:
https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-TBT ... P-1280.mp4

2. from the end of the bedroom inside the closet to meet the 'communal pipeline"
https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-fVN ... 9-1280.mp4

3. from outside into my flat
https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-hsQ ... f-1280.mp4

4. another video from outside into my flat, with less reflection on the screen
https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-NBd ... T-1280.mp4


Thanks so much as always.