Will I soon be out of a job?

[DrFfybes]

... AI is now so sophisticated that it's beginning to present a genuine threat to the livelihood of legal professionals (and by analogy all other professionals).

I wish I'd used an AI for my conveyencing, it would have probably done a better and faster job than the one we used, not taken 3 weeks to reply to an email, nor lost the searches. In fact for routing property contracts it would probably be ideal.

However I suspect my Chimney Sweep isn't worried

Paul

[Clitheroekid]

...Had I given the same request to a traineee solicitor and they'd produced that I'd have given them at least a silver star, if not a gold one!...

If the your hypothetical trainee had asked how it could be improved to guarantee a gold star, what would you have said?

Good question. Had it been an actual situation I would have expected the trainee to include some information about the costs involved, so I gave the bot the following instruction:

Please explain that my time is charged at £300 an hour plus VAT and that I would expect to spend 15 to 20 hours on the matter. There are also court fees of £295 and Bailiff fees of £130. Provide an overall estimate of the costs based on these figures.

From which it produced the following:

Dear [Client Name],

I am writing to you as your solicitor in relation to your request to obtain possession of a property that you let on an assured shorthold tenancy agreement. As you are aware, we will need to proceed with the section 8 procedure as the property has not been registered with the local authority. The costs associated with the section 8 procedure may include court fees, solicitor's fees, and potentially bailiff's fees.

Please note that my time is charged at £300 per hour plus VAT. Based on my assessment of your case, I anticipate that it will take approximately 15 to 20 hours to complete the necessary work. This means that the estimated cost of my time will be between £5,400 and £7,200 plus VAT.

In addition, there are court fees of £295 and bailiff's fees of £130 that will also need to be paid. Please note that these figures are correct as of the date of this letter, but they are subject to change.

Taking these costs into account, the estimated overall cost of the section 8 procedure is between £5,825 and £7,625 plus VAT. However, please note that these costs may vary depending on the specific circumstances of your case, and I will keep you updated on any changes to the estimated costs.

If you have any further questions or concerns regarding the costs associated with the section 8 procedure, please do not hesitate to contact me.

Yours sincerely,

[Your Name] Solicitor

Apart from the fairly minor point that the court fees and bailiff fees don't attract VAT this was again a remarkably effective and professional effort. However, although it does make an impressive attempt to flesh out the basics it can obviously only work on what I put in to the query.

Whilst I can see that this would work really quite effectively for generic advice – for example, the type dished out at call centres that deal with questions from people who pay modest sums for legal expenses insurance – it’s still a very long way from the type of advice that I and other lawyers would actually give on an individual basis.

For a start, it’s completely unable to assess the character of the individual client, and their likes and dislikes. In practical terms this is of the upmost importance. Some clients want a lot of information; others just basically tell me to get on with it and let them know when they need to do anything. Some clients are very concerned about the costs, and prioritise doing the work as cheaply as possible; others really aren’t bothered provided they get the result they want.

Perhaps most important is the attitude of the client to how the work is to be conducted. Particularly in litigation this can vary from a client who wants to be extremely aggressive, throwing everything at it from the start, to someone who will bend over backwards to achieve a solution, even if it means them settling for a lot less than they are entitled to.

It’s this relationship with the individual client that is fundamental to the professional relationship, and it's almost as important to the success of the business as the competence with which the work is done. It's what the client is paying a lot of money for, and if they felt that they were not getting that personal attention - that the advice was being provided by AI rather than a human being - they would either go elsewhere or demand to receive such advice far more cheaply.

However, I wouldn't be complacent that this will always be the case. Such is the speed at which AI is developing I can envisage a situation where it would carry out an initial interview with the client, form an accurate assessment of their character, and ultimately produce high quality advice that was successfully tailored to their individual needs.

Even more concerning to young lawyers (and mediators) is the logical inference that such AI could, having accurately analysed the merits of a case, then negotiate with other AI `lawyers' to reach a settlement that was sensible and reasonably fair to all parties.

Though I'm sure that even then the human beings that were the actual parties to the dispute would be saying that their own legal AI was better / more expensive / more up to date than that of their opponent, and that they were going to give them a good stuffing!

[mc2fool]

...this is the first time that I've really appreciated that AI is now so sophisticated that it's beginning to present a genuine threat to the livelihood of legal professionals (and by analogy all other professionals).

Especially professions that involve lying, b*llsh*tting, waffling and inventing fake "facts" to try and justify themselves!

The natural language capabilities of ChatGPT are, indeed, very impressive. But nobody should actually trust it with anything. As one review put it, "it hallucinates facts".

If you haven't already take a read through this thread: viewtopic.php?p=552063#p552063

It's a long thread so if you don't have time read this post, in which it's insisting, despite my challenges, that the Peregrine Falcon is a mammal. viewtopic.php?p=552760#p552760

And then this post, viewtopic.php?p=553031#p553031, where I think, ok, it's read some page somewhere and has misunderstood it, so I ask it for its source for the idea that the Peregrine Falcon is a mammal and it cites an authoritative sounding scientific paper (Morphology and Biomechanics of the Peregrine Falcon (Falco peregrinus) Wing and Tail), published in an authoritative journal (The Auk: Ornithological Advances, vol. 134 (2017) pp. 669-687), and quotes it directly, claiming the paper says that the Peregrine Falcon has "fur, four legs, and mammary glands"! The journal exists but, of course, the paper doesn't. ChatGPT seems to have simply made it up to justify its misconception.

There are plenty of other such examples in that thread. So, no, you won't be out of a job. AI may be used to replace a lot of the grunt work but professionals with your knowledge and experience especially will be needed to read and double check everything the AIs put out, to make sure their output isn't just not wrong but isn't pure invention and hallucinating "facts"....

[Lootman]

...this is the first time that I've really appreciated that AI is now so sophisticated that it's beginning to present a genuine threat to the livelihood of legal professionals (and by analogy all other professionals).

AI may be used to replace a lot of the grunt work but professionals with your knowledge and experience especially will be needed to read and double check everything the AIs put out, to make sure their output isn't just not wrong but isn't pure invention and hallucinating "facts"....

Or as John Oliver put it: AI is more "artificial" than it is "intelligent".

But what a boon for schoolkids and students with homework essays to write!

[elkay]

Will I soon be out of a job?

DId you ask it?

Or maybe have a conversation with it about how it could reduce your workload

[JohnB]

https://www.wired.com/story/chatgpt-gen ... e-lawyers/

I did snigger when they suggested the term for legal AI Harvey producing rubbish was hallucination, but I didn't go further down that rabbit hole.

[JohnB]

At AWS pricing of 10p/hour, CKs charging rate would get 3000 4 core servers. That's an awful lot of flops, and compute costs will only fall, and software gets optimised

Which fields get the AI treatment depends on both the complexity of the task and the cost saving, and law, with its high fees and barriers to entry, is very likely to be disrupted. Practitioners need to hope that reading their clients is a more useful skill than reading case law.

[redsturgeon]

For a start, it’s completely unable to assess the character of the individual client, and their likes and dislikes. In practical terms this is of the upmost importance. Some clients want a lot of information; others just basically tell me to get on with it and let them know when they need to do anything. Some clients are very concerned about the costs, and prioritise doing the work as cheaply as possible; others really aren’t bothered provided they get the result they want.

Perhaps most important is the attitude of the client to how the work is to be conducted. Particularly in litigation this can vary from a client who wants to be extremely aggressive, throwing everything at it from the start, to someone who will bend over backwards to achieve a solution, even if it means them settling for a lot less than they are entitled to.

But you can give this information to the AI and it will advise accordingly eg:

Prompt: The client wants a fast and aggressive response

Answer:
Dear [Client's Name],

Re: [Property Address]

Thank you for your instructions to obtain possession of the property as soon as possible. I can assure you that we will take swift and aggressive action to achieve this.

We will be pursuing possession of the property using the Section 8 procedure, which is the most effective way to evict tenants who have breached their tenancy agreement or failed to pay rent. This process involves serving the appropriate notice on the tenant(s), preparing the necessary documentation, issuing court proceedings, attending court hearings, obtaining a possession order, and engaging a bailiff if necessary.

Please note that the estimated legal fees for this process are between £5,850 to £7,800 plus VAT, and the estimated overall cost, including legal fees, court fees, and bailiff fees, is between £6,275 to £8,225 plus VAT.

We will do everything in our power to expedite the process and achieve a positive outcome as quickly as possible. If you have any questions or concerns, please do not hesitate to contact me.

Yours sincerely,

[Your Name]
[Your Firm's Name]

[pje16]

Just wanted to say thanks to @Clitheroekid
I had this page
https://www.digitaltrends.com/computing ... n-chatbot/
bookmarked, but hadn't got round to reading it until this posted started
it is an amazing piece of technology
I found some fascinating responses last night

[hiriskpaul]

I am currently on the line to NS&I, but I got their "Virtual Assistant" first. Explained that I wanted to transfer some ILSCs to the widow of someone who died last year. To start off with the VA said is was sorry for the loss - creepy? Certainly insincere. The VA then said that it was not possible to transfer ILSCs to anyone else, they had to be cashed in. At this point I said I wanted to speak to someone sensible and have been in a queue for the last 20 minutes.

Edit: finally got through and was told I had to write in, requesting a transfer form. The form is not online and it cannot be emailed to me. I guess trying to introduce AI when manual processes are shambolic is not going to improve anything.

[pje16]

Edit: finally got through and was told I had to write in, requesting a transfer form. The form is not online and it cannot be emailed to me. I guess trying to introduce AI when manual processes are shambolic is not going to improve anything.

I feel for the handful of tech guys drowning in a sea of incompetence

[stewamax]

I use ChatGPT to double check for announcements that I might have missed in specific techie areas that are rapidly changing.
Yesterday I fired at it "Does Microsoft Graph support OAuth2 client_credentials grant for SMTP yet" and it responded with what I believe is the current state of affairs.
But it also suggested a slightly devious workaround that had never occurred to me; I wrote the standard text for this niche area so redundancy beckons for me as well!

[mc2fool]

I use ChatGPT to double check for announcements that I might have missed in specific techie areas that are rapidly changing.

Not a reliable idea 'cos the snapshot of the internet that ChatGPT uses as its knowledge base and was trained on is from two years ago....

Human: what is the latest news from the bbc?
AI: The BBC has been reporting on a variety of news topics today, including the latest on the EU's plan for a vaccine passport, the possibility of a third lockdown in England, and new research from the Lancet showing that hydroxychloroquine is not effective against Covid-19. Please let me know if there is anything else I can help you with!

Human: what is the latest news from the metro
AI: The Metro is reporting on the UK's plans to reopen school in March, the government's plan to extend the furlough scheme until the end of April, and new research from the Lancet showing that hydroxychloroquine is not effective against Covid-19. Please let me know if there is anything else I can help you with!

Human: and that is the news from today or yesterday?
AI: The news stories I referenced are all from today. Please let me know if there is anything else I can help you with!

Human: what date?
AI: Today's date is March 20th, 2021. Please let me know if there is anything else I can help you with!

[Bouleversee]

I am currently on the line to NS&I, but I got their "Virtual Assistant" first. Explained that I wanted to transfer some ILSCs to the widow of someone who died last year. To start off with the VA said is was sorry for the loss - creepy? Certainly insincere. The VA then said that it was not possible to transfer ILSCs to anyone else, they had to be cashed in. At this point I said I wanted to speak to someone sensible and have been in a queue for the last 20 minutes.

Edit: finally got through and was told I had to write in, requesting a transfer form. The form is not online and it cannot be emailed to me. I guess trying to introduce AI when manual processes are shambolic is not going to improve anything.

I was also offered being put through to their bereavement dept. when I phoned with a query re ILSCs (one of mine seems to have disappeared) and having wasted an hour trying to speak to someone wrote to them on Feb. 20. Rang again today and after another long wait was told I wouldn't get a reply for at least a week.

I see we have 2FA log-in with umpteen belts and braces now, smart phones are assumed to be universal and we are directed to Twitter to raise questions. None of the options for questions on the website covered my query and they didn't offer 'other' as an option. NS&I, HMRC and pretty well every public service and other organisation I have to deal with seem to be incompetent and are making life ever more difficult for their elderly clients

[robbelg]

While many people are raving about it I've seen many posts (not least here on LF) where it produces very plausible but totally wrong text. I've even seen a conversation where a user manages to convince it that 2+2 = 5 ( probably fake, but who can tell these days)