Information for estate agents

[melonfool]

When I owned rental properties, it was illegal for an estate agent NOT to pass on any offer that they received. I would be surprised if this has changed in the intevening 10 years.

ND

But the estate agent could easily say the person making the offer was unable/unwilling to meet the statutory requirements or they remain to be convinced with documentary evidence that the purchaser was in a financial position to proceed (no evidence yet of former partner's cash injection ). If in the estate agent's opinion the purchaser is not in a position to proceed an offer will not be forwarded to the vendor.

Indeed in my area an estate agent won't even show a potential purchaser a property if the purchaser had not sold their property subject to contract or was in a position to proceed immediately.

Can you please link to those' statutory requirements'? Because the links provided above are very vague about it all and if there is statute on the matter that will be clear and I will know what I am supposed to do.

Has anyone got any idea how I can evidence the ex's payment to me? Obviously I can't wait until I have got it as I need to move out the minute it transfers to my bank. This situation is hardly unique so there must be some normal practice.

Mind you, if I took the full mortgage on offer and released all my savings and sold my shares I could buy the house outright.

(the EA does not answer its phones until 10am on a Monday as they are all in a team meeting, apparently)

Mel

[redsturgeon]

https://www.gov.uk/buy-sell-your-home/estate-agents

Estate agents must also treat buyers fairly. They must show any offers promptly and in writing to the person selling the house.

John

[Mike88]

"Can you please link to those' statutory requirements'? Because the links provided above are very vague about it all and if there is statute on the matter that will be clear and I will know what I am supposed to do".

It was my understanding that the Money Laundering Regulations applied to estate agents as well as solicitors. I haven't time to look it up now so perhaps others can comment.

As regards the link provided by red sturgeon it depends on what constitutes an offer. The word "offer" is not defined. An estate agent would probably state that an offer means an offer submitted by a purchaser after the relevant checks have been made to ensure that there is a realistic prospect the transaction is able to proceed.

Evidence of money coming from the former partner is difficult to substantiate to state the obvious. However, this sentence might provide the answer:

"Mind you, if I took the full mortgage on offer and released all my savings and sold my shares I could buy the house outright. "

That being the case then surely all you need to do is show the EA the value of your shares and the mortgage offer and you will be able to demonstrate you have the funds to complete the purchase. How you eventually fund the purchase is entirely a matter for you.

[melonfool]

https://www.gov.uk/buy-sell-your-home/estate-agents

Estate agents must also treat buyers fairly. They must show any offers promptly and in writing to the person selling the house.

John

I have now spoken to the [12 year old] agent who miraculously got out of his meeting half an hour early and who claims not to have seen my email until this morning.

He says he will put the offer forward but he waffled on and on about needing more evidence of my ability to proceed. I do understand that. But I don't know how to resolve it. He is not happy with the mortgage decision in principle because it is from a broker (London and Country, one of the biggest) and they can only accept them from a "broker they trust" - he KEPT referring to his mortgage broker and saying I had to go in and see him, I said I was not interested in their mortgage broker at all. He said their mortgage broker is the only one who can tell them whether to accept my offer as evidence (heh, funny that!) as he [EA] "obviously doesn't know anything about mortgages". Really?
He then kept saying because it was only from the broker I had to call the broker and get them to get the offer from the provider, otherwise I had to speak to his broker. (I was getting quite cross by this point). I said no, the broker could not go forward with applying for a mortgage from a provider until I had something to get a mortgage FOR, so he would do that once I had an offer accepted.
He was adamant that the broker would give me the full offer so in the end I said "you call them, see what they say".

He then started saying he needed evidence of the money from ex - well, yes. So I asked him what evidence and he didn't know. He said that a mortgage offer from a broker would be fine. I said ex isn't using a broker, he's going straight to the provider, so it would be the offer from the provider - he said "yes, through a broker", I said no, he's not using a broker....we went round that circle a few times (how come I have to get an offer from a provider but his is allegedly through a broker even though it isn't'?). I explained again it is direct with a provider so he said could I get him the name of the broker, I said "advisor..." and he said yes. I then explained that it wouldn't do him any good, there was no reason the agent would speak to him, I have no relationship with ex's mortgage provider and there is no reason they would speak to a random estate agent.

I asked him twice what usually happens in these situations and he said obviously other people had dealt with this sort of thing but he hadn't. Well, mate, neither have I!

So, I have mailed ex and asked for a copy of his offer in principle (which I know he has because I have been peeking at his post) and for him to tell me the name of his agent and give his agent permission to speak to the EA. I've also, for good measure, asked for the details of his solicitor.

I shall now call my broker and ask them for some sanity in the situation.

And hell will freeze over before I submit to dealing with the mortgage broker at the estate agent!



Mel

[melonfool]

Evidence of money coming from the former partner is difficult to substantiate to state the obvious. However, this sentence might provide the answer:

"Mind you, if I took the full mortgage on offer and released all my savings and sold my shares I could buy the house outright. "

That being the case then surely all you need to do is show the EA the value of your shares and the mortgage offer and you will be able to demonstrate you have the funds to complete the purchase. How you eventually fund the purchase is entirely a matter for you.

Yes, except, see new answer - they don't want to accept my offer in principle because it is from a broker, not a provider.

Mel

[Slarti]

and they can only accept them from a "broker they trust" - he KEPT referring to his mortgage broker and saying I had to go in and see him

So all he is trying to do is earn some commission off you.

Stick to your guns and, if possible, contact the vendor directly to ensure they've put your offer to them.

I had to do that when I bought this place, for different reasons.


25 years on and estate agents still seem to be scum of the earth.

Slarti

[melonfool]

The previous ones I put an offer forward through were fine - but funnily enough they didn't seem to have in-house mortgage brokers.

Ex appears to be OK with sending me something (though he hasn't actually done it yet), so if they can accept that and I add my savings I meet the purchase price, without needing them to accept the mortgage broker offer. In fact, I can do that with savings and not selling shares.

Mel

[richlist]

In your shoes I'd be absolutely livid.

Don't deal with the EA any more just ask to speak to the branch manager.....who may not know this '12 year old' is handling things so badly. If no joy escalate up to their head office......aren't they part of a much larger organisation ?

[baldchap]

25 years on and estate agents still seem to be scum of the earth.

Slarti

I think it was Al Murray who said that you don't see old estate agents, because it is possible to die of shame.

Moderator Message:
fixed broken quote (chas49)

[modellingman]

and they can only accept them from a "broker they trust" - he KEPT referring to his mortgage broker and saying I had to go in and see him

So all he is trying to do is earn some commission off you.

Stick to your guns and, if possible, contact the vendor directly to ensure they've put your offer to them.

I had to do that when I bought this place, for different reasons.


25 years on and estate agents still seem to be scum of the earth.

Slarti

I agree entirely.

In your position, I would contact the vendor, by letter, and set out in writing as concisely and as clearly as possible

- your offer and the sort of timescales that you have in mind
- your difficulties in dealing with the estate agents (12 year olds, in-house lead generation, over-rigid in evidence requirements, failing to tell you about the id requirements when they met you in person, etc)
- your circumstances and how how you intend to finance the purchase

Apologise for the direct approach and stress that you've only been driven to this because of your frustration in dealing with the agents. Re-assure the vendor that you are not trying to engage them directly in price negotations, that you are happy to do that through the agent and that all you want to do is ensure the vendor is aware that you are a serious buyer with a serious offer.

In addition to making sure the vendor is aware of the offer, the aims in contacting the vendor should be a) to generate a little bit of sympathy for the position that you are in - namely that you don't neatly fit into one of the categories that the agent understands and knows how to deal with and b) to motivate the vendor to tell the agents to stop acting like idiots and to start acting like they actually want the vendor's house to be sold.

The 12 year old and his boss may well be seriously p'd off by a direct approach to the vendor. If you encounter this, I'm sure you are more than capable of escalating the matter over their heads. I can't believe an organisation as large as Countrywide doesn't have some sensible managers who recognise the inflexibility and incompetence that you've had to put up with is not actually very good for their business.

[Lootman]

But the estate agent could easily say the person making the offer was unable/unwilling to meet the statutory requirements or they remain to be convinced with documentary evidence that the purchaser was in a financial position to proceed (no evidence yet of former partner's cash injection ). If in the estate agent's opinion the purchaser is not in a position to proceed an offer will not be forwarded to the vendor.

No, the estate agent should still forward the offer. It is ultimately for the seller to decide whether to accept an offer. The EA can offer their opinion as to the viability of the buyer, but not exclude the offer. As a seller, I'd be furious if an EA "vetted" the offers in that way. I might be willing to take on a riskier buyer if the offer is higher and I can afford to wait.

Indeed in my area an estate agent won't even show a potential purchaser a property if the purchaser had not sold their property subject to contract or was in a position to proceed immediately.

I've never heard of that. In fact I have bought properties without selling my previous property, and lots of people own more than one property. Some evidence of being a serious buyer is reasonable, as it makes the offer more credible. A mortgage offer is helpful in that regard. But I have had all-cash offers submitted to a seller simply based on my word that I was good for it. And I was.

Moreover it cuts both ways. I once accepted an offer submitted via an EA who vouched for the buyer, only to have that buyer try a lower offer the day before we were due to exchange contracts. So an EA's word isn't that reliable either.

I do not have a high opinion of estate agents in any event, and certainly do not want them interfering in the manner suggested, nor making decisions that are mine to make.

[melonfool]

I *thought* I had a promising afternoon with all this yesterday, but today they have dashed my hopes again. Idiots.

So, the EA put the offer to the vendor and I got an email saying they were considering it, at 11.27am. I heard nothing so about 5pm I called and was told the EA was not available because he was hand delivering the offer to the vendor. Seriously??

I called the mortgage broker and asked what the process is and he said he will get me the agreement in principle from the provider the same day as I have an offer accepted, he has to have an actual property to get the agreement on. I said I would speak to him again in the next day or so.

So, heard nothing this morning and then called the EA who has now said that the vendor had two more viewings last night and 'obviously' wanted to see how they went - I was not told this yesterday,. He also says the vendor wants to see my 'offer in principle' before he agrees to a price. I asked several times if the vendor had actually said this but was left pretty sure it was only the EA saying this. I asked why they had not shown the vendor my OIP and he said it doesn't count because it's only from a broker. He said when he called my broker yesterday he had "promised" to get the offer from the bank to him by the end of the day (seems pretty unlikely they would promise that to a random EA without contacting me, eh?) but had not and that he had tried to call him this morning but he is now on leave until 6th Feb.

I *know* my broker did not say that to him because I also called my broker. I said to the broker that I would speak to him in the next day or so and he never mentioned being on leave which seems odd to me. He does tend to work late morning into early evening so he wouldn't be there this morning.

I left it that the EA would ask his mortgage advisor again if they could accept the OIP I have given them. I have no idea why any of this is anything to do with their mortgage advisor.

I think I will go back with a higher offer and tell them 1) I am not taking a mortgage, I am simply using the cash from ex and savings that 2) they can speak to ex's solicitor as he has told the solicitor they can do that.

Mel

[redsturgeon]

I think I will go back with a higher offer and tell them 1) I am not taking a mortgage, I am simply using the cash from ex and savings that 2) they can speak to ex's solicitor as he has told the solicitor they can do that.

Mel

Hmmm. the agents appear to be stalling for time for some reason. Not sure if your original offer has actually been rejected yet though (not even sure it has made its way to the vendor tbh) so not sure if a higher offer will achieve anything at this point accept to suggest to the agent that you are getting desperate.

I think you need to make it pretty clear that you expect a yes or no on your offer by X.

John

[melonfool]

I think I will go back with a higher offer and tell them 1) I am not taking a mortgage, I am simply using the cash from ex and savings that 2) they can speak to ex's solicitor as he has told the solicitor they can do that.

Mel

Hmmm. the agents appear to be stalling for time for some reason. Not sure if your original offer has actually been rejected yet though (not even sure it has made its way to the vendor tbh) so not sure if a higher offer will achieve anything at this point accept to suggest to the agent that you are getting desperate.

I think you need to make it pretty clear that you expect a yes or no on your offer by X.

John

Yes, I have said 1pm. I have increased the offer - I expected to increase it anyway, but after they came back and said what they wanted, so I've just jumped a step. I don't really mind if he thinks I am desperate to be honest (I might be!).

Ex is now away on business for the week so if they need anything more from him I'm going to be hard-pressed to get it (and he's in a grump with me after I pointed out his teenage son had drunk a small bottle of (MY) gin while he was left alone in the house yesterday early evening - as if it's MY fault!)

Mel

[redsturgeon]

Ex is now away on business for the week so if they need anything more from him I'm going to be hard-pressed to get it (and he's in a grump with me after I pointed out his teenage son had drunk a small bottle of (MY) gin while he was left alone in the house yesterday early evening - as if it's MY fault!)

Mel

Things could be worse...it could have been a large bottle!

Good luck!

John

[melonfool]

Ex is now away on business for the week so if they need anything more from him I'm going to be hard-pressed to get it (and he's in a grump with me after I pointed out his teenage son had drunk a small bottle of (MY) gin while he was left alone in the house yesterday early evening - as if it's MY fault!)

Mel

Things could be worse...it could have been a large bottle!

Good luck!

John

That's kind of the point, we don't know what he may have drunk, or been drinking from other bottles, we only know about this one because it was small and he put it in the bin!

Mel

[Clitheroekid]

It seems to me that the estate agents are being even more obnoxious and obstructive than estate agents usually are, which is saying something.

This business of trying to force you to use their mortgage brokers is depressingly common. It also happens when they are getting backhanders from solicitors. Many's the time clients of mine have been told by estate agents that it could seriously prejudice their purchase if they don't use a specified firm, and it's bloody annoying.

It's also potentially illegal. The buyers of houses are protected by the Consumer Protection from Unfair Trading Regulations 2008 (`CPR’s’).

These prohibit “unfair commercial practices”, and one type of unfair commercial practice is an “aggressive practice”.

Regulation 7 states as follows:

7. (1) A commercial practice is aggressive if, in its factual context, taking account of all of its features and circumstances—
(a) it significantly impairs or is likely significantly to impair the average consumer’s freedom of choice or conduct in relation to the product concerned through the use of harassment, coercion or undue influence; and
(b) it thereby causes or is likely to cause him to take a transactional decision he would not have taken otherwise.

The National Trading Standards Estate Agency Team published updated guidance in September last year - http://www.nfopp-regulation.co.uk/media ... -sales.pdf It’s heavy going, but the key point is on page 24, where it states:

4.18 Here are some illustrative examples of aggressive practices.

When you market property

Pressurising a potential buyer to use associated services, for example to take out a mortgage through the in-house mortgage advisor or to use a particular firm of solicitors or licensed conveyancers.

And at paragraph 5.46:

Ensure that you do not pressurise potential buyers into agreeing to receive services such as a mortgage or conveyancing work from you or a person connected to you.

It might therefore be worth pointing this out to the agents - in writing - and saying that if they carry on being obstructive you'll report them to the local Trading Standards department for a breach of the CPR's.

It also seems doubtful that your offers are being communicated effectively - or at all - to the sellers. If I were you I would therefore contact the sellers directly, saying that you've only done so because of the agents' attitude. I've had clients in a similar situation over the years, and when they've taken this route it's often been successful in bulldozing a stupid agent out of the way.

With regard to the proof of the money to come from your ex a letter from your solicitors confirming it should be all the proof you need. It's frankly ridiculous of the agents to demand any more detailed proof. It's not as though the house has been specifically advertised as being for cash buyers only, with a 14 day completion date, where it's quite reasonable to ask for proof of funds. You’re entitled to be treated as a responsible and trustworthy adult, so that if you tell them the money’s available that should be an end to it.

[melonfool]

Thank you CK - it's so difficult to deal with when you need the little so-and-sos on side! I may make a complaint once the bit I need them for is done.

I steered him through all his bluster (he kept telling me he trusted me, it wasn't about that....no, it's about selling your mortgages!).

And the offer has been accepted and house taken off the market.

Now the *real* fun will begin I guess.



Mel

[redsturgeon]

Thank you CK - it's so difficult to deal with when you need the little so-and-sos on side! I may make a complaint once the bit I need them for is done.

I steered him through all his bluster (he kept telling me he trusted me, it wasn't about that....no, it's about selling your mortgages!).

And the offer has been accepted and house taken off the market.

Now the *real* fun will begin I guess.



Mel

Champagne time!!

Maybe not yet...

Good luck I hope it all goes well...when's the house warming?

John

[csearle]

And the offer has been accepted and house taken off the market.

Excellent, well done, I think with my nature I'd've blown the deal long since!

Chris