Donate to Remove ads

Got a credit card? use our Credit Card & Finance Calculators

Thanks to smokey01,bungeejumper,stockton,Anonymous,bruncher, for Donating to support the site

Copyright Issues.....

including wills and probate
johnbkeith
Posts: 2
Joined: November 17th, 2016, 3:53 am

Copyright Issues.....

#5803

Postby johnbkeith » November 17th, 2016, 4:24 am

I am helping the daughter of a late artist friend of mine. She has a collection of over 200 negatives gifted to her by her late father when he was alive, and would like to potentially use them in a book and to print large and exhibit so produced prints for sale. The late artist has quite a following, and these photographs offer a new insight into his work and influences when he was in his 20's.
The paintings and signed limited edition prints of this artist are currently fetching three to five figure sums at auction or as sold through art dealers, and under copyright rules her and her half sister benefit from the current rules each time a painting or print is sold. They get a small percentage of the sale price which they share.
The half sister is not in regular contact and has been reluctant in the past to see any of her fathers artistic works further reproduced, her argument being that current owners of limited edition prints of his works will not be happy to see larger quantities of what they took to be limited editions of the prints they own flood the market (understandable) and dissipate the value of the ones they own, even though any newly printed ones for obvious reasons cannot be signed.
The question is what rule applies (if any) to the negatives of original photographs (landscapes or photos of steam engines awaiting destruction or purchase by enthusiast groups) and not of his paintings, and in the sole possession of the daughter I am advising, these never having been exposed to the market or reproduced? In fact they've have 8-) never been probably seen as positives other than by the artist, and I'm very probably the first person to have made black and white positives from the original negatives and observed them as intended by the artist when he took the photographs. Can she go ahead and print them, use them in books, sell enlarged photoprints in limited editions etc. without half sister being consulted? What rights (if any) does half sister have?
Artist did print and sell some of these photos from the same photoshoots enlarged and signed in his lifetime, but the ones we are working on are to our knowledge fresh to the market and previously unseen and printed.
Any advice would be welcome on how to proceed.....

Personal thanks to Chas49 and newlyretired for directing me to this site after the closure Of Motley Fool's site dealing with legal issues. Thanks again.

oldtimer
Posts: 40
Joined: November 5th, 2016, 11:20 am

Re: Copyright Issues.....

#5827

Postby oldtimer » November 17th, 2016, 8:31 am

What does it say in the will? If the copyright has been left to her, or her half-sister then it's clear to whom they belong.
If there is evidence that the negatives were gifted to her separately, then they are hers to do with as she wishes.

She needs to think also what she wants from publication? Does she wish to make a profit out of the photos or just to ensure they have the widest exposure? The two things require a different strategy.

RedSnapper
2 Lemon pips
Posts: 145
Joined: November 8th, 2016, 8:32 am
Has thanked: 24 times
Been thanked: 38 times

Re: Copyright Issues.....

#5831

Postby RedSnapper » November 17th, 2016, 8:39 am

First point is that ownership/possession of the negatives is completely separate to rights conferred by ownership of copyright. I.e. the fact that she was left/owns the negatives does not in itself give her any right to reproduce them.

The second point is who has the right to reproduce. I think you need specialist advice here. I don't know whether joint ownership of copyright confers a separate right to each to reproduce or a joint right which must be agreed, or can be veto'd by either.

patrickmacqueen
Posts: 41
Joined: November 5th, 2016, 1:20 pm
Has thanked: 6 times
Been thanked: 19 times

Re: Copyright Issues.....

#5841

Postby patrickmacqueen » November 17th, 2016, 9:22 am

First point is that ownership/possession of the negatives is completely separate to rights conferred by ownership of copyright. I.e. the fact that she was left/owns the negatives does not in itself give her any right to reproduce them.


Surprisingly this may not be correct. Copyright in photographs taken between 1912 and 1989 (which sounds as if it may include the time these photos were taken) normally belongs initially to the owner of the negative, and (I believe) then follows ownership of the negative. If so, the daughter should own copyright in the photographs of which her father gifted her the negatives while he was alive.

https://www.dacs.org.uk/knowledge-base/ ... hotographs

RedSnapper
2 Lemon pips
Posts: 145
Joined: November 8th, 2016, 8:32 am
Has thanked: 24 times
Been thanked: 38 times

Re: Copyright Issues.....

#5847

Postby RedSnapper » November 17th, 2016, 9:31 am

patrickmacqueen wrote:
First point is that ownership/possession of the negatives is completely separate to rights conferred by ownership of copyright. I.e. the fact that she was left/owns the negatives does not in itself give her any right to reproduce them.


Surprisingly this may not be correct. Copyright in photographs taken between 1912 and 1989 (which sounds as if it may include the time these photos were taken) normally belongs initially to the owner of the negative, and (I believe) then follows ownership of the negative. If so, the daughter should own copyright in the photographs of which her father gifted her the negatives while he was alive.

https://www.dacs.org.uk/knowledge-base/ ... hotographs



Interesting. My understanding (I am a professional photographer but I would not suggest that makes my understanding infallible!) has always been that those rules dictate the original ownership of the copyright and was intended to cover the situation of, for example, press photographers who used film supplied by their employer. I was under the impression that copyright thereafter followed normal rules (i.e. stays with the creator unless expressly passed elsewhere). I would be very interested in a definitive clarification if anyone knows of a source.

johnbkeith
Posts: 2
Joined: November 17th, 2016, 3:53 am

Re: Copyright Issues.....

#5913

Postby johnbkeith » November 17th, 2016, 1:05 pm

Thank you all for your contributions, particularly Patrick McQueen. I think this answers my query. Thanks again. :D

patrickmacqueen
Posts: 41
Joined: November 5th, 2016, 1:20 pm
Has thanked: 6 times
Been thanked: 19 times

Re: Copyright Issues.....

#5934

Postby patrickmacqueen » November 17th, 2016, 1:51 pm

Thank you all for your contributions, particularly Patrick McQueen. I think this answers my query. Thanks again.


Please don't rely completely on the second part of what I said, namely that copyright in a pre-1989 photograph passes automatically to the owner of the physical negative. There is the possibility that a separate assignment of the copyright would have been needed, as RedSnapper suggested.

RedSnapper
2 Lemon pips
Posts: 145
Joined: November 8th, 2016, 8:32 am
Has thanked: 24 times
Been thanked: 38 times

Re: Copyright Issues.....

#5939

Postby RedSnapper » November 17th, 2016, 2:01 pm

patrickmacqueen wrote:
Thank you all for your contributions, particularly Patrick McQueen. I think this answers my query. Thanks again.


Please don't rely completely on the second part of what I said, namely that copyright in a pre-1989 photograph passes automatically to the owner of the physical negative. There is the possibility that a separate assignment of the copyright would have been needed, as RedSnapper suggested.


Indeed....my advice received today from a professional body and from a specialist lawyer is that the legislation referred to above identifies the 'original owner' of the copyright and thereafter copyright follows the normal rules i.e. it remains with the creator unless specifically assigned elsewhere.

Having said that, copyright can be inherited just like any other asset, so the exact wording of the will may be relevant.


Return to “Legal Issues (Practical)”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 59 guests