ID for house purchase

[UncleEbenezer]

Wot, you mean like http://www.experian.co.uk/identity-and- ... cking.html or even like https://www.gov.uk/government/publicati ... vuk-verify?

(Disclaimer: I have been professionally involved in some of the technology behind those).

This tackles a rather different problem. The hard part of any cryptographic identity system is bootstrapping: I can prove that I'm the same "me" I was last time we communicated, but who am I in the first place? The UK government system appears to work without any strong check of that, so it doesn't really solve much.

If you've been involved then you'll know that there isn't actually a UK government system per se but that they've contracted out the checking to certified companies, each of which has different ways of verifying your identity (albeit with a lot in common).

Yes. My involvement is with underlying technology used by such companies.

But in any case, I'm not quite sure what you mean by the above, as verifying who you are is the very first thing the certified companies do. It's only once that's done they just get you to prove you are the same person they verified you were in the first place.

As an end-user, I signed up for government ID. That appears to be accepted for my tax returns. Yet I did all that online, without going through the kind of identity check I've needed for a passport, or even for signing up with a GP.

It was not a secure process. I was seriously taken aback at the lack of checking!

Damned if they do, damned if they don't.

Hmmm...I haven't heard anybody say, damn them, they verified my ID electronically instead of putting me through the grief and expenses of getting certified copies of my passport and council tax bill...

I have. People whose identity was fraudulently used. It's a recurring theme if you read/listen to investigative journalists.

[mc2fool]

As an end-user, I signed up for government ID. That appears to be accepted for my tax returns. Yet I did all that online, without going through the kind of identity check I've needed for a passport, or even for signing up with a GP.

Yes, I signed up for GOV.UK Verify too -- in fact I've signed up twice as the first time was via Verizon who later stopped offering the service, and with both them and the Post Office, who I am now signed up via, it was quite a long process (~15 mins) and requiring me to dig into my filing cabinet, and in some cases (e.g. dates of opening bank accounts) into my (paper) archives, to get the answers to the questions they asked.

What kind of identity check are you talking about that you've needed for a passport? I renewed mine three years ago and I don't remember being required to produce anything at all, other than the form, my old passport, two mug shots, and the dosh.

As for signing up to a GP, all my current GP wanted was my name, address and NI number -- and were amazed and delighted when I also gave them my NHS number.

[Alaric]

I'm not sure what can reliably be done about such "first place" checking: DNA capture at birth?

Governments have various requirements to be able to issue fake identity documents, so it needs ways of bypassing totally rigorous checks.

From the top of my head, there's witness protection and protection of released criminals, to say nothing of fake identities required by the Police and security services.

[RandomWords]

The simplest scheme would be compulsory identity cards, but if this was too controversial the government could simply introduce voluntary identity cards. For a modest fee - I would think around £50 should be enough to cover the running costs - you would be issued with a certificate of identity that you could use whenever required, instead of having to go through this ludicrous rigmarole all the time.

Funnily enough there is such a thing, a small plastic card that you can carry in your wallet that most places accept as ID and which (I read somewhere) costs £34. And it lets you drive on UK roads into the bargain!

RW

[pochisoldi]

Funnily enough there is such a thing, a small plastic card that you can carry in your wallet that most places accept as ID and which (I read somewhere) costs £34. And it lets you drive on UK roads into the bargain!

RW

Not required, when you can meet lenders identification requirements with documents you already have in your possession.
Not to mention the fact that some people can't get a drivers licence, sometimes by their own hand (banned), sometimes not (medically barred)

PochiSoldi

[Gengulphus]

Funnily enough there is such a thing, a small plastic card that you can carry in your wallet that most places accept as ID and which (I read somewhere) costs £34. And it lets you drive on UK roads into the bargain!

No, it costs an awful lot more than that, plus a lot of your time. It's arguably cheap if you want the side-effect, but otherwise a passport is far cheaper! ;-)

Gengulphus

[Lootman]

Of course, if you've fraudulently obtained a passport & driving licence as "Joe Soap", got yourself onto the electoral register, have an address history, and opened bank accounts & credit cards that you can answer questions about, etc, all under that name, then, sure, it's going to be hard for any system (not just electronic ones) to check who you are "in the first place". I'm not sure what can reliably be done about such "first place" checking: DNA capture at birth?

Maybe only DNA or fingerprints. A few central American countries (Costa Rica for sure, possibly Guatemala and Belize) will grant you citizenship there in return for about US $10,000. But the best part about it is that they will grant you citizenship in any name you choose, and issue passports, driving licenses etc. in that new name.

So Mister mc2fool could visit those nations and, for a small consideration, emerge as Manuel Carlos Dos Tonto. That identification could then be used anywhere as evidence of who you are. Or rather, who you are not.

[melonfool]

My daughter (and b/f) are looking to buy a house.

The mortgage broker says that his firm will do ID checks electronically, but that for the lender, he will need photo id.

She was born in the UK and has not traveled abroad for years. She does not and has never driven.

He suggested that she apply for a provisional driving licence pronto.

He also said that the conveyancers will require photo id and may not accept a provisional driving licence - so she may have to apply for a passport.

I do understand that the lender is committing a large amount of money and has to be sure who they are lending to, but is there no way someone can use other documents?

It does seem extra aggravation and extra expense on top of all the other stuff involved in house purchase - especially when she does not want or need either a driving licence or passport!

Thanks.

As I am [still!] going through the process of buying a house, I know I am lucky that I have both passport and photo DL.

But, neither the broker nor the lender required any ID. This may, in part, be because I already have an account with the lender [though when the broker looked for a mortgage they didn't know it would end up with this lender, nor that I had an account there] - can she talk to a financial institute she has previously dealt with for her mortgage?

The Estate Agent required photo ID, I met the guy at the house and he took a photo of my passport with his phone. I was later told I had to send a soft copy of my passport as he had been told to delete the photo he took as it was "a breach of data protection", such rubbish! But, I can confirm, in case you needed to know, that EAs are a pain in the posterior, will do anything they can to be a nuisance and don't know their own rules.

As for the conveyancer (solicitor), yes, I took photo ID into their offices and got verified by an admin person, along with a load of payslips, P60, a council tax bill for address and my current mortgage statement, just in case (they didn't ask for all this). They then wrote to me and said I needed to bring in ID.....I was disappointed they had not joined up the process. But they didn't chase again after I pointed out I had already done it (I did it pre-emptively when I had a day off work as I knew they would need it later, this was before I had actually instructed the conveyancer but when I instructed the family solicitor).

The whole thing is a pain.

Pochisoldi has it right, there are various lists that can be used (I struggle with the document one currently as all our utility bills are in OH name as he set them up when we moved).

She shouldn't need to buy a passport. But, even if she does, in the scheme of things and the costs of buying a house, it's pretty small beer.

Mel

[pendas]

Despite previous use of the Inland Revenue site, I'm now asked to prove my identity and have given up trying.

One question always asked is which bank I opened a current account with in 1957! I was aged 9 at the time and very much doubt I ever opened a current account at that age and some of the choices of bank offered simply didn't exist then under that name.

[JMN2]

If we'd stayed in the EU we might've adopted the system some countries there have, a strong electronic ID identification online using bank account security and password numbers. I recently sold property there and logged into Land Registry website where I drafted the contract, ordered some searches (planning, covenants, etc), and later signed the contract and liaised with buyer's bank to receive the money, all without solicitors, estate agents (used a rightmove type website myself) using my bank account security numbers as a "strong identification". If one had a passport or ID card with a chip or something that could've been used too. So for instance if one logs into a government website (similar to Government Gateway etc) you would log in with your id card or bank details and all major banks would have the logo there, click it and it logs you via your bank's online identification systen straight into "gateway".

Sorry I can't explain it with proper terminology.

[Alaric]

Despite previous use of the Inland Revenue site, I'm now asked to prove my identity and have given up trying.

There may be two ways of accessing the Revenue site. If you own up to being a taxpayer and want to pay them outstanding tax, it can be a lot more forgiving. The third party sites that "prove identity" are basically rubbish and best avoided.