The Lemon Fool

It's a bit late to ask this now, but I'm in a bit of a quandary.
I inherited my father's house and have put it back on the market about 10 weeks ago at (let's say) £300k.

I've had one offer, initially a "cash offer" for £270k, which I rejected. After one week, they got back in touch, and I made a counter-offer of £280k.
After an offer of £275k, they then went up to £280k.

Initially, the estate agents said the buyers wanted to live in it themselves, but it turns out they want it for a buy-to-let, and the "cash" offer is "remortgage".

My quandary is that I think I've probably reduced it far too much, and I'm not happy with £280k and would hope to get more. Also, I'm not happy that it's a buy-to-let purchase, mainly because I'm expecting lots of tricks and last-minute haggling. (I'm just assuming this because they are running a business, and will have experience in how to get the lowest possible selling price).

Here's some possible options - would appreciate your thoughts.
a) Immediately reject the offer, saying I've changed my mind about selling it now, and wait to see if they increase it.
b) Accept their offer, but accept another offer if I get one before contracts are exchanged.

Estate agent thinks that people may be much more likely to move after the election, and after any interest rate cuts.

I can easily wait a few months, but would prefer to sell before winter if possible. My other option is to put the house up for an auction sale, as in that case I'd get buy-to-let buyers bidding against each other. I'm not sure how much of a cut the auction house would get though.

Have I got this right: you don't want a BTL sale because you expect "tricks" close to exchange -- but you think it might be a good idea to go through the motions of selling to the party whose offer you accepted, then switch to another buyer if possible prior to exchange?

Hmm.


GS

zico wrote:It's a bit late to ask this now, but I'm in a bit of a quandary.
I inherited my father's house and have put it back on the market about 10 weeks ago at (let's say) £300k.

I've had one offer, initially a "cash offer" for £270k, which I rejected. After one week, they got back in touch, and I made a counter-offer of £280k.
After an offer of £275k, they then went up to £280k.

Initially, the estate agents said the buyers wanted to live in it themselves, but it turns out they want it for a buy-to-let, and the "cash" offer is "remortgage".

My quandary is that I think I've probably reduced it far too much, and I'm not happy with £280k and would hope to get more. Also, I'm not happy that it's a buy-to-let purchase, mainly because I'm expecting lots of tricks and last-minute haggling. (I'm just assuming this because they are running a business, and will have experience in how to get the lowest possible selling price).

Here's some possible options - would appreciate your thoughts.
a) Immediately reject the offer, saying I've changed my mind about selling it now, and wait to see if they increase it.
b) Accept their offer, but accept another offer if I get one before contracts are exchanged.

Estate agent thinks that people may be much more likely to move after the election, and after any interest rate cuts.

I can easily wait a few months, but would prefer to sell before winter if possible. My other option is to put the house up for an auction sale, as in that case I'd get buy-to-let buyers bidding against each other. I'm not sure how much of a cut the auction house would get though.

If you're not in a hurry don't sell at auction. You'll get bottom dollar minus the auction houses significant cut. A quick Google search will tell you what the fees are.

Did you do your price research before going to market? You should be able to establish from Rightmove what a realistic price for your property is, then set an aspirational price and a bottom dollar price and the two should not be set so close together as to make give and take difficult. Immediately reject anything below your bottom line price and negotiate up on any offer above that.
If on reflection you're not happy with what you have accepted verbally you're not obligated proceed but before relisting you should be clear in your mind what price you are happy with so that when you achieve there's no sellers remorse.

There is nothing stopping you from rejecting the offer.

I suspect that estate agents try a higher price initially hoping something will happen quickly and then often the price falls after a while if there are no takers. Hopefully you are looking at others in the market to see what has sold and how yours compares. Again the estate agents should have been providing you with similar.

So the 280k might be an ok offer after all this time. Does it matter how the buyer gets you the cash. As for "lots of tricks and last-minute haggling" Once the offer is accepted there should be some progress, searches solicitors etc. So I would only expect something in a survey that might need discussing. Any purchaser could also try tricks or haggling! Even you are thinking about doing it or allowing gazumping.

I would probably walk away if you did that to me or return the favour. The agent is probably right about the election and a rate cut or three but its not guaranteed, a bird in the hand and all that.

Gerry557 wrote:There is nothing stopping you from rejecting the offer.

I suspect that estate agents try a higher price initially hoping something will happen quickly and then often the price falls after a while if there are no takers. Hopefully you are looking at others in the market to see what has sold and how yours compares. Again the estate agents should have been providing you with similar.

So the 280k might be an ok offer after all this time. Does it matter how the buyer gets you the cash. As for "lots of tricks and last-minute haggling" Once the offer is accepted there should be some progress, searches solicitors etc. So I would only expect something in a survey that might need discussing. Any purchaser could also try tricks or haggling! Even you are thinking about doing it or allowing gazumping.

I would probably walk away if you did that to me or return the favour. The agent is probably right about the election and a rate cut or three but its not guaranteed, a bird in the hand and all that.

Thanks for the thoughts and advice. I might just wait a few more days before replying to the estate agent, in the hope the buyer might increase their offer. Once I've accepted an offer, I think it would be unethical to require a higher offer, but I haven't yet accepted the offer yet.

There is nothing legally to stop you announcing you are withdrawing acceptance of this buyer without giving a reason.

The estate agent may try to bill you for their services though, as they have done their job of introducing a buyer "willing and able to proceed". You could counter this by pointing out you accepted the offer on the basis of it being a cash offer (i.e. not dependent on raising a loan), and on it being for OO not for BTL so the buyer misled you on two counts.

You can also point out (if necessary) to the EA that the agree asking price of £300k has not yet been achieved and once interest rates begin to decline as expected, house prices tend to rise so marketing for a little longer may well produce a buyer at £300k or more.

Edit to add a critical word!)

Mike4 wrote:There is nothing legally to stop you announcing you are withdrawing acceptance of this buyer without giving a reason.

The estate agent may try to bill you for their services though, as they have done their job of introducing a buyer "willing and able to proceed". You could counter this by pointing out you accepted the offer on the basis of it being a cash offer (i.e. not dependent on raising a loan), and on it being for OO not for BTL so the buyer misled you on two counts.

Although you do not need a reason to pull out of a deal I don't think the buyer's intended use of the property as a BTL is relevant to the seller. I would argue that it is none of the seller's business what a future owner does with the property and, indeed, the buyer is under no obligation to reveal that, and/or could change his mind the day after completion.

I get that there is an emotional side to selling a family home, especially if it is the house you grew up in. There is a temptation to want it to go to someone whom you approve of. I had the same feeling when I sold my mother's house and the new owner rented it out. He also tore out my father''s landscaped back garden to turn it into a "patio", and tore out all his custom-made cabinetry.

But then that is the risk you take when you sell. If I had cared that much I could instead have kept it as a museum to my youth, but not sure that is healthy either.

Lootman wrote:Although you do not need a reason to pull out of a deal I don't think the buyer's intended use of the property as a BTL is relevant to the seller. I would argue that it is none of the seller's business what a future owner does with the property and, indeed, the buyer is under no obligation to reveal that, and/or could change his mind the day after completion.

I get that there is an emotional side to selling a family home, especially if it is the house you grew up in. There is a temptation to want it to go to someone whom you approve of. I had the same feeling when I sold my mother's house and the new owner rented it out. He also tore out my father''s landscaped back garden to turn it into a "patio", and tore out all his custom-made cabinetry.

But then that is the risk you take when you sell. If I had cared that much I could instead have kept it as a museum to my youth, but not sure that is healthy either.

?

In the OP (and some subsequent posts):

zico wrote:, I'm not happy that it's a buy-to-let purchase, mainly because I'm expecting lots of tricks and last-minute haggling. (I'm just assuming this because they are running a business, and will have experience in how to get the lowest possible selling price).

i.e. It's nothing to do with what the buyer will do after purchase. Anyone who'd bothered to read the thread before posting would have realised this immediately...

GS

GoSeigen wrote:

Lootman wrote:Although you do not need a reason to pull out of a deal I don't think the buyer's intended use of the property as a BTL is relevant to the seller. I would argue that it is none of the seller's business what a future owner does with the property and, indeed, the buyer is under no obligation to reveal that, and/or could change his mind the day after completion.

I get that there is an emotional side to selling a family home, especially if it is the house you grew up in. There is a temptation to want it to go to someone whom you approve of. I had the same feeling when I sold my mother's house and the new owner rented it out. He also tore out my father''s landscaped back garden to turn it into a "patio", and tore out all his custom-made cabinetry.

But then that is the risk you take when you sell. If I had cared that much I could instead have kept it as a museum to my youth, but not sure that is healthy either.

?

In the OP (and some subsequent posts):

zico wrote:, I'm not happy that it's a buy-to-let purchase, mainly because I'm expecting lots of tricks and last-minute haggling. (I'm just assuming this because they are running a business, and will have experience in how to get the lowest possible selling price).

i.e. It's nothing to do with what the buyer will do after purchase. Anyone who'd bothered to read the thread before posting would have realised this immediately...

I was responding to Mike, not Zico.

But I am not sure that it is reasonable to assume that a BTL buyer will engage in "tricks". I bought a few BTLs back in the day and felt no need for trickery. Perhaps Zico's objection to and stereotyping of BTL owners is more political?

1 What they use the house for is irrelevant, unless you're living next door.

2 Lying about the cash offer is relevant, as there might be more lying as things progress. Although, it's highly possible that the lying is by your estate agent, rather than the buyers.

3 You could check on the land registry to see what similar properties are selling for. If the price is too low, reject the offer. Although, if it's taken 10 weeks to get to this, you might have to be patient.

The bottom line is the OP accepted an offer of £280k against an asking price of £300 which he now regrets, feeling he wants more than the £280k previously accepted.

All the lines or reasoning are irrelevant. It is the seller's right to withdraw from the sale whatever the reason (and without giving a reason if he so wishes) provided contracts have not been exchanged.

Assuming this is not Scotland, where I believe the process is different..

If you're not happy with £280K then reject the offer IMO.

House selling is so much less stressful if you can trust the other party. If you can afford to be fussy then reject them, and I'd expect them to reject you if you start mucking about.

zico wrote:I inherited my father's house and have put it back on the market about 10 weeks ago at (let's say) £300k.

I've had one offer...
:
I can easily wait a few months, but would prefer to sell before winter if possible.

Well, there may be specific circumstances that justify it but, honestly, if I'd had only one offer after 10 weeks I'd seriously wonder if I was asking too much. Either that or if something is wrong with the listing and/or estate agent.

How many viewings have you had so far?

zico wrote:

Gerry557 wrote:There is nothing stopping you from rejecting the offer.

I suspect that estate agents try a higher price initially hoping something will happen quickly and then often the price falls after a while if there are no takers. Hopefully you are looking at others in the market to see what has sold and how yours compares. Again the estate agents should have been providing you with similar.

So the 280k might be an ok offer after all this time. Does it matter how the buyer gets you the cash. As for "lots of tricks and last-minute haggling" Once the offer is accepted there should be some progress, searches solicitors etc. So I would only expect something in a survey that might need discussing. Any purchaser could also try tricks or haggling! Even you are thinking about doing it or allowing gazumping.

I would probably walk away if you did that to me or return the favour. The agent is probably right about the election and a rate cut or three but its not guaranteed, a bird in the hand and all that.

Thanks for the thoughts and advice. I might just wait a few more days before replying to the estate agent, in the hope the buyer might increase their offer. Once I've accepted an offer, I think it would be unethical to require a higher offer, but I haven't yet accepted the offer yet.

Can you just clarify, so currently the buyers have upped their offer to £280k but you haven't actually replied to that last offer. I would expect a reply fairly quickly even if its a we need 24 hours to confer and will get back to you. Typically its normally done and dusted in less than 20 min with some back and forwards over a phone.

The delay is also costing you as you are missing out on a return on that 280K. So how much per month will that eat out of your preferred price.

zico wrote:

Gerry557 wrote:I suspect that estate agents try a higher price initially hoping something will happen quickly and then often the price falls after a while if there are no takers. Hopefully you are looking at others in the market to see what has sold and how yours compares. Again the estate agents should have been providing you with similar.

So the 280k might be an ok offer after all this time.....

Thanks for the thoughts and advice. I might just wait a few more days before replying to the estate agent, in the hope the buyer might increase their offer.

Or they might go elsewhere and then you have to start again.
If you were to invest the proceeds at 5%, and save paying the Council tax, you would be up more than £1,000 a month. Meanwhile you have to keep the house clean and fresh and maintain the garden.
Given you are being offered 93% of your asking price, unless that price was wrong I would say that you should go for it.
As to the buyer being economical with the truth as regards their cash position, I'm afraid it's just par for the course.

It's a stressful business, selling a house.

V8

zico wrote:
Thanks for the thoughts and advice. I might just wait a few more days before replying to the estate agent, in the hope the buyer might increase their offer. Once I've accepted an offer, I think it would be unethical to require a higher offer, but I haven't yet accepted the offer yet.

The buyer won't normally increase the offer whilst they are still waiting for a reply on their last offer. That would be stupid.

What advice is your estate agent giving you.?

Dicky99 wrote: You should be able to establish from Rightmove what a realistic price for your property is

Rightmove will tell you nothing useful about sold prices, the only stats they have are asking prices, and even those are heavily slanted because they exclude anything that's been reduced or been on the market for more than a few months.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DLpPg54cy_o

Lanark wrote:

Dicky99 wrote: You should be able to establish from Rightmove what a realistic price for your property is

Rightmove will tell you nothing useful about sold prices, the only stats they have are asking prices, and even those are heavily slanted because they exclude anything that's been reduced or been on the market for more than a few months.

Not so. Righmove have actual sold prices but they just get them from the land registry, which you can do a bit more flexibly directly from http://landregistry.data.gov.uk/app/ppd/.

And for current listings they don't exclude anything that's been reduced or been on the market for more than a few months, both are flagged in the listings. However, for current listings Zoopla is more useful 'cos it shows the asking price history (of the current sale).

mc2fool wrote:

Lanark wrote:Rightmove will tell you nothing useful about sold prices, the only stats they have are asking prices, and even those are heavily slanted because they exclude anything that's been reduced or been on the market for more than a few months.

Not so. Righmove have actual sold prices but they just get them from the land registry...

I'm not talking about individual prices or listings but the Rightmove statistics, Rightmove are very handwavy about how exactly they are calculated, which makes their index rather suspect to me.
This is via 'Moving Home With Charlie' on youtube who is a bit of an industry insider. He sells software into the Estate Agency businesses.

Land Registry figures are often 3 to 12 months behind the market and agents can manipulate the figures by 'forgetting' to register the cheaper properties until the very last minute.